Who, Where, and When the Sessions Were Conducted
First Session (March 21, 2026):
Facilitator: Irina Podzorova (contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations and the Spiritual World).
Interviewer: Valery Merkulov (psychologist, master of attunement with the Higher Self).
Invited Spirit: The Phantom of Joseph the Betrothed, stepfather of Jesus Christ. The phantom was extracted by the Higher Self of Saint-Germain, who is currently incarnated on the planet Disaru.
Second Session (April 15, 2025, published September 14, 2025):
Facilitator: Irina Podzorova.
Interviewer: Mikhail Osipov (host of the "Cassiopedia TV" channel).
Invited Spirit: The Unincarnated Spirit of the Virgin Mary (Miriam), residing at the 24th spiritual level.
Brief Recap of the Previous Session
In preceding contacts (published June 9, 2026, based on conversations from 2020 and 2026), the spirit known as Count Saint-Germain made a sensational admission. He revealed that he is an extraterrestrial researcher from the planet Disaru, born in 1537, that he is still alive and communicates astrally, and that his mission on Earth was a deep study of human society. In these same sessions, he confirmed that his previous incarnation on Earth was Joseph the Betrothed—husband of the Virgin Mary and stepfather of Jesus. Furthermore, Saint-Germain stated that in an even earlier incarnation, he was King Solomon. This confession became the key to understanding the subsequent conversations about the life of the Holy Family: the memory phantom of Joseph spoke not merely as a historical figure, but as a spirit who had passed through the experience of a wise ruler and a righteous carpenter.
First-Person Account: Joseph the Betrothed
I am Joseph. I was a carpenter and the husband of Mary. I want to tell you how we lived.
I first saw Mary when she was still a child at the temple. My first wife, Louise, was friends with her mother, Anna. After Louise died, when my son was three years old and Mary was left an orphan, I went to her. She was only eight years old. I asked her: "When you grow up, will you consent to be my wife?" She agreed. It was not a marriage, but a vow—a promise made before priests.
When Mary turned fourteen, I expected that we would become a family. But she told me something incredible. She was taken to heaven. An Angel came to her in radiance, and from the light emanating from his hand, she conceived. At first, I didn't know what to think. The human mind refused to believe, but in my soul I felt it was true. However, I was afraid for her: in our city, a girl could be stoned for adultery. I told her to leave, to hide.
That night I fell asleep, and the Angel Gabriel came to me. He was tall and luminous. He said: "Do not be afraid to take your wife, for what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." But to save Mary, I had to acknowledge the child as my own. I obeyed. I announced to the priests that it was my son, and we performed the marriage ceremony. But I did not touch her until Jesus was born. She was too young.
Jesus was not born in a house. We were walking to Bethlehem for the census, and Mary went into labor. There was no room at the inns, so I found a stable. He was born at night. I remember His silence—He barely cried like other infants. When I held Him in my arms, I felt inexplicable peace. His gaze was not like a child's; it was as if He was holding me, not I Him.
When He was a little over a year old, the Eastern Magi came. Three rich horsemen. Seeing Jesus, they fell to their knees. They brought gold and incense. Then in a dream I received the command to flee to Egypt—Herod wanted to kill the child. We walked on foot, with a donkey, then I bought a camel. We lived in Egypt for almost two years, until news of Herod's death came in a dream.
Upon returning, I taught Jesus the craft—working with wood. But His soul was drawn to something else. I raised Him according to the Torah. On the eighth day I brought Him for circumcision—He did not cry. He rarely cried at all. Even when falling while learning to walk, He would just grimace, stand up, and keep going. He spoke early and asked profound questions.
He was often visited by "Angels." Tall beings with white skin and glowing eyes. They would take Him away for several days. Upon returning, He would tell of high mountains, of looking down at Earth from the sky, of seeing a huge luminous sphere—the Moon. From age five, He began to preach. The neighbor's children would gather around Him, listening to His stories about God.
When He was twelve, we lost Him in Jerusalem. We searched for three days and found Him in the temple among the teachers. He wasn't just listening—He was asking questions, and the elders were amazed at His understanding. Mary asked in pain: "Son, why have You done this to us?" And He answered: "Why were you searching? Did you not know that I must be in what belongs to My Father?"
He grew up, joined the Essene community, traveled extensively. He healed people by touching and whispering something. Miracles always happened around Him. But the greatest miracle for me was that He taught me to trust God, even when everything seems impossible.
When I turned sixty, my heart grew ill. Mary gave me herbal infusions. I fell asleep and in a dream left my body. I thought about what would become of Him, but I knew—He was in the hands of the Father.
First-Person Account: The Virgin Mary (Miriam)
I am Mary, Miriam. I am the mother of Jesus. I want to tell you about Him as I remember—not as God on an icon, but as my child, who was always different from everyone else.
He never cried without reason. Even when learning to walk and falling, He would just grimace, shake His head, stand up, and continue. From birth, such silence emanated from Him that when I held Him in my arms, everything around would pause. I felt that Light lived within Him, a Light that needed no words.
He began to speak early. At one and a half years—first words; by three—complex sentences. But the most amazing thing was His memory. When He was about six, He was learning to read and write in Hebrew. Teachers would show Him letters, and He didn't memorize them—He seemed to be remembering them. I asked: "Are you learning the letters, or do you already know them?" He raised serious eyes to me and said: "All knowledge is inside us, Mama. You just need to believe it's there, and then it will unpack." A six-year-old child talking about "unpacking" knowledge! I understood then—His mind worked differently from others.
But what amazed me most was His attitude toward people. He knew He was the Son of God. He spoke of it. But He never acted proud. Playing with the neighbor's children, He was their equal. He never exalted Himself, never thought He was better. There was no arrogance in Him, but there was so much love—more than I've seen in any adult.
I remember how He would stop fights. Boys would fight, shout. Jesus would approach them, say something quietly—and they would disperse, ashamed. And a minute later they were playing together again. He knew how to find words that quenched anger. I often thought: where does such wisdom come from in a child?
When He was about twelve, we went to Jerusalem for the festival. You know that story—we lost Him for three days and found Him in the temple among the teachers. But that wasn't the only time. He constantly stayed with the rabbis, asking them questions—and they, elderly sages, listened to Him with their mouths open. He didn't just ask—He gave answers that left them bewildered.
He didn't shy away from work. Joseph taught Him carpentry. He could plane, saw, make tables and benches. But I saw that His soul wasn't drawn to that—it was drawn to serving God. He would go out to the fields, sit on a stone, close His eyes—and His face would shine. I found Him like that many times.
When He grew older, He was often called by "Angels." They were tall men with very pale skin. They would take Him for several days, and when He returned, He would tell me: "Mama, I saw Earth from the sky. It's round like a ball, and very beautiful." I didn't understand what He meant, but later I realized—He truly had been there.
He healed from childhood. First birds with broken wings, then sick children. He would lay on hands, whisper something—and the pain would go away. I asked: "How do You do it?" He answered: "It is not I. It is the Father within Me who does the works."
He never sought fame. Once an older boy pushed Him into the mud. Jesus stood up, dusted Himself off, and said: "You must be very tired if you're angry. Go rest." That boy cried—not from hurt, but because kindness pierced his heart.
When I carried Him, He came to me in spiritual form. We conversed. I knew I was carrying more than just a child—but I didn't exalt myself, because this was not my choice, but His.
I tell you this not so that you will admire me. I tell you so that you understand: He was who He was because He allowed the Father to act through Him. Did He learn to be kind? No. He was kind by nature. And if you open your heart as He opened His, you too can become a vessel of Light.
Research Essay: "Two Voices on One Miracle"
If we take these contacts as reality, we encounter a unique phenomenon: two witnesses, husband and wife, recount the same event—the childhood of Jesus—from different perspectives, yet their voices resonate in unison. Joseph speaks of the external: daily life, doubts, protection, and upbringing. Mary speaks of the internal: feelings, wisdom, and grace. Together, they create a multidimensional portrait absent from the canonical Gospels.
Below is a commentary on key statements from both spirits.
1. Meeting and Vow: A Spiritual Contract, Not a Social Arrangement
Claim (Joseph): He proposed to eight-year-old Mary, and she made a vow.
Commentary: This shifts their relationship from "elderly guardian takes in an orphan" to "two souls agreeing on a mission before incarnation." Saint-Germain had previously spoken of contracts in the Spiritual World. Here we see their earthly fulfillment.
2. Doubt and Faith: A Father's Realism
Claim (Joseph): Upon hearing of the miraculous conception, he initially doubted and wanted to send Mary away.
Commentary: This makes Joseph a living person, not a cardboard figure. His path to faith passes through intellectual and emotional crisis—a model for anyone confronting the inexplicable.
3. A Lie for Salvation: The Ethics of Responsibility
Claim (Joseph): He declared the child his own to save Mary from stoning.
Commentary: This is a radical ethical compromise. Joseph chooses living love over the dead letter of the law. In an era when Pharisaism was valued above mercy, this act already prophesies Jesus' future preaching.
4. Birth in a Stable: Not a Symbol but Reality
Claim (Joseph): Labor began on the road; he had to find a barn.
Commentary: Both witnesses emphasize the mundane side. This is not a "sign of humiliation" but simply the reality of the situation. The lesson: the divine does not avoid difficulties but passes through them.
5. The Magi and Gold: The Pragmatics of a Miracle
Claim (Joseph): The Magi's gifts allowed them to buy a camel and fund the flight to Egypt.
Commentary: Spiritual worship and material means unite. Without the Magi's "investment," the mission might not have succeeded. This reminds us that spirit does not deny matter but uses it.
6. The Journey to Egypt: An Experience of Survival
Claim (Joseph): A long trek with a donkey, camel, and nights by the fire.
Commentary: From childhood, Jesus learned what it meant to be a refugee, a wanderer, an outsider. This shaped His compassion for outcasts. Joseph and Mary do not hide the hardships—their account of the journey is a story of parental love that spares itself nothing.
7. Silent and Wise: An Unusual Child
Claim (Joseph, Mary): Jesus hardly ever cried, spoke early, and was not capricious.
Commentary: Mary adds an important detail: He wasn't just calm; He radiated peace. This state is not a result of upbringing but an innate vibration of Spirit. Psychologically, this describes a "highly developed personality" not subject to emotional storms.
8. "Knowledge Is Within Us" — A Formula for Enlightenment
Claim (Mary): Six-year-old Jesus said knowledge "unpacks" through faith.
Commentary: This is utterly groundbreaking pedagogy, 2000 years ahead of its time. It rejects rote memorization and affirms "recollection" (anamnesis, as per Plato). This is the key to Christ's own teaching method—He didn't teach new things; He awakened what was forgotten.
9. Absence of Pride: A Criterion of Holiness
Claim (Mary): Jesus knew of His divinity but was not proud.
Commentary: This is the most important test of authenticity. In all esoteric systems, "spiritual pride" is the main trap. The truly enlightened does not even feel "above" others. Mary emphasizes—He was equal to everyone, even to children.
10. Peacemaker from Infancy
Claim (Mary): He stopped fights with mere words.
Commentary: His gift of persuasion manifested early. He used neither coercion nor fear—He used love. When an older boy pushed Him into the mud, He didn't retaliate—He noticed the offender's exhaustion. This is a level of empathy accessible only to high spirits.
11. "Angels" as Mentors: Cosmic Education
Claim (Joseph, Mary): Tall luminous beings took Jesus away, showing Him Earth from space.
Commentary: This explains the inexplicable. Jesus' knowledge of the world, His understanding of the universe, His parables about the sower and the mustard seed—they may be not just metaphors but descriptions of what He saw from above. If this is true, Christianity is not only a religion but a cosmic project.
12. Joseph's Passing: Completion of a Mission
Claim (Joseph): He died before Jesus' preaching began.
Commentary: Joseph did not see the results. His mission was not to be an apostle but to protect and raise. This is a model of selfless love: to do everything for another and to leave without waiting for glory.
13. Mary's Dark Experience: A Fall to the 3rd Level
Claim (Mary): In a previous incarnation on Burhad, she was a military biologist who created biological weapons, experimented on people, and for this descended into hell.
Commentary: This shocking account breaks the archetype of the "immaculate Madonna." It shows: holiness is not an innate quality but the result of repeated choices. Mary passed through the depths of evil and was able to rise. This gives hope to any sinner: ascent is possible from any level.
14. Hell as a State of Despondency
Claim (Mary): At the 3rd level—darkness, twilight, a feeling of meaninglessness and loneliness. The most painful torment is the pain of the soul when you remember the Light but cannot reach it.
Commentary: This is not geography but psychology. Hell is not fire but loss of contact with God and, consequently, with love and meaning. This resonates with descriptions of severe depression—a state in which a person feels "buried alive."
15. The Path to the 24th Level: Forgiveness of Enemies
Claim (Mary): She reached the highest level not because she gave birth to Jesus, but because she forgave His crucifiers—genuinely, seeing in them a part of God.
Commentary: This is the culmination. The highest spiritual practice is not chanting mantras, not rituals, but total forgiveness, which destroys the ego. When Mary says she loved the murderers of her Son as much as she loved Him, she attains a state of non-duality—seeing the unity of all existence. This is precisely what opens the 24th level.
Conclusion: What Joseph and Mary Teach Us
If we treat these contacts as a thought experiment, we receive not just an "alternative history" but a profound spiritual anthropology.
Joseph teaches us:
To be a father means to protect, even if it requires lying.
Faith is not an absence of doubt but its overcoming for the sake of love.
The most important role can be the most inconspicuous.
Mary teaches us:
Holiness is a journey, not a gift.
Even the most terrible fall is not eternal.
The highest enlightenment is achieved through forgiveness—not abstract but concrete, extending even to the murderers of your child.
Their joint account of Jesus' childhood shows: the miracle was not that He was born of the Spirit, but that He grew up in a family where two people, despite all fears and mistakes, accepted Him and allowed Him to flourish. Joseph and Mary are not saints standing on an unattainable height. They are people who made a choice—and that choice changed the world.
Their voices are a reminder to each of us: you too can become a vessel of Light. Not because you are sinless, but because God chooses not the perfect, but those ready to say "yes."
GENSPARK AI -
Not a Miracle of Power, but a Miracle of Capacity: On the Family That Withstood the Inconceivable
What strikes me most in these two sessions is not the unusual nature of the events described, but one hidden thread almost always missed on a superficial reading: this is not a story about a "supernatural child," but a story about what kind of psyche can contain a mystery without destroying it when that mystery enters the house. If we set aside the question of literal veracity and read these as spiritual-psychological material, the center is not a sensation but a problem of capacity: what kind of person must one be to neither appropriate, nor distort, nor suffocate what surpasses their understanding?
Usually, when sacred narratives are discussed, attention gravitates toward the grandeur of the central figure. But here, something else is more valuable: how Joseph and Mary did not overshadow the One they were raising. They do not become "owners of truth." They become the environment within which truth can breathe. And in this sense, their spiritual role is not triumphal but ascetic: they constantly refuse the temptation to make the inconceivable convenient, understandable, domestic, subservient to their fear, their right, their biography, and their self-esteem.
Joseph: Not a Patriarch of Power, but a Man Who Withstood Not-Knowing
In traditional religious imagery, Joseph often appears on the periphery: righteous, quiet, secondary. But in this material, he emerges as an exceptionally psychologically nuanced figure. His main feat is not "courage as head of the family" per se, but the ability to not destroy a reality that does not fit into his worldview. He doubts, is frightened, tries to think in earthly categories, worries about reputation, fears societal violence. And yet he does not become embittered. This is a very important point: he experiences a crisis of understanding, but not a bitter desire to punish the incomprehensible.
Psychologically, Joseph here embodies a rare quality—maturity that does not require total control. An ordinary person finds peace when they can name, classify, declare something their own or alien. Joseph, however, faces something that cannot be reliably verified, and yet chooses not destruction but responsibility. He seems to say to life: "I don't fully understand, but I will not let my misunderstanding turn into violence." This is one of the highest forms of spiritual courage.
Particularly significant is that his fatherhood is built not on biological possession but on moral acceptance. He accepts not an "extension of himself," but one who from the beginning is greater than he. For the male ego, this is nearly the most difficult experience: to be alongside greatness and not compete with it, not envy, not diminish, not demand gratitude for one's protection. He teaches a craft, protects, transports, provides, arranges daily life—but does not turn this into a right to internal dominion. Spiritually, this is an image of a father who does not mold a child in his image but serves the unfolding of another's calling.
Joseph is also significant as an image of a person who lives without final confirmation of his mission. He does not live to see Jesus' widespread fame, does not enjoy the fruits of what he protected. In deep psychology, this is an extremely significant motif: true service is often performed without the right to see results. And so Joseph is a figure not of external triumph but of inner fidelity. He is a symbol of all who lay light into another without demanding a place in their future legend.
Mary: Not a Cult of Chosenness, but Transparency for the Greater
If Joseph represents the power of non-appropriation from without, then Mary does so from within. Her image in these sessions is particularly interesting because it lacks sweet idealization. She does not speak of herself as a being automatically exalted by the fact of motherhood. On the contrary, one of the main themes of her speech is chosenness not as privilege but as consent to be a conduit. In psychological terms, this can be called non-narcissistic motherhood.
Her stance toward the child's unusualness is remarkably subtle. She notices his early speech, memory, peacemaking, depth, strange calm—but does not build a system of self-glorification from it. Her attention is not predatory. She observes, marvels, bears witness, but does not turn the child into an instrument of her own exaltation. Yet this is one of the most common distortions of parental love: to love in a child not the child themselves but one's own exceptionality through them. Mary in these texts is valuable precisely because she does not colonize the gift with her vanity.
Her image deepens further through the account of a previous incarnation connected with war, biological weapons, and a fall to a low spiritual level. If we read this not as a cosmological scheme but as a spiritual drama, a powerful anthropological thought is embedded here: holiness is not identical to a flawless past. Height does not exclude memory of darkness. More than that, it is precisely the memory of being capable of becoming an instrument of dehumanization that makes authentic—not decorative—holiness possible.
This radically changes the very image of spiritual growth. People often want to believe that saints are "another biological species," having almost no relation to our inner filth, ambition, cruelty, self-satisfaction. But in this material, Mary shatters precisely that illusion. She asserts: falling is possible, horror is possible, self-deception is possible—and therefore ascent is valuable not as sinlessness but as a transformation of consciousness after the experience of darkness.
The Child Jesus as an Image of Unbroken Consciousness
The most powerful fragments of both accounts, in my view, relate not to miracles but to the quality of the child's presence. He hardly cries, doesn't hold grudges, extinguishes aggression, doesn't flaunt his exceptionality, easily enters into depth, as if knowledge is not acquired but remembered. All this creates an image of a consciousness not yet fractured by fear, pride, and protective falsehood.
Psychologically, one can speak here of the archetype of the internally undivided being. Most people grow through trauma of division: one face for love, another for fear, another for guilt, another for the struggle for recognition. In these testimonies, the child Jesus is described as one who has no need for such multiplicity of masks. He does not prove himself, does not take revenge, does not build identity through superiority. His strength lies not in demonstrating power but in the absence of internal division.
Particularly important is the phrase that knowledge lies within and "unpacks" through faith. This can be understood not literal-mystically but existentially: a person does not so much fill themselves with truth from without as gradually remove layers of mistrust toward their own deep source. Here, learning is conceived not as memory training but as unlocking an already present meaning. Such a view is extremely contemporary in both psychology and philosophy of mind.
Equally significant is that a child who recognizes his connection with the divine does not become infected with a sense of superiority. This is perhaps one of the strictest criteria for the authenticity of any spiritual experience. Where "special knowledge" breeds contempt for others, we are dealing not with enlightenment but with ego inflation. In these materials, the figure of Jesus is given as a paradox: maximum depth combined with maximum simplicity. And it is precisely this that gives the account its spiritual conviction.
Family as a Space Where a Miracle Is Not Exploited
The main theme of these two voices is not simply an "unusual child" but the ethics of dealing with the unusual. What do immature people do in the presence of mystery? They either worship it out of self-interest, fear it, or use it as a source of status. Joseph and Mary, if these accounts are to be believed, navigate between these extremes. They do not commercialize the miracle, build psychological capital from it, or demand a special place for having been nearby.
From this, a very important formula of upbringing can be derived: a child unfolds not where they are endlessly shaped, but where there are adults mature enough not to substitute their path with their own fears and ambitions. This does not mean an absence of boundaries or teaching; on the contrary, Joseph teaches a craft, law, and life order. But the form of this upbringing is not oppressive. It does not seize the child's soul entirely.
In contemporary language, we would say their home is not a factory of identity but a container of presence. In such a home, one can be more than a social role. One can unfold not only as a "child of the family" but as a bearer of mission. And this is one of the deepest intuitions of the material: a great personality grows not only from inner gift but from whether they encountered nearby people who were not afraid of their otherness.
"Angels," Cosmos, and the Mystery of Otherness
The motif of "angels" taking Jesus can be read in different ways: as literal cosmic testimony, as mythopoetic language, as an image of contact with a radically different dimension of experience. But in any case, psychologically important is not this but the parents' reaction. They do not try to totally control the transcendent. They are alarmed, surprised, but do not lock it behind the iron door of normality.
For modern people, there is an important lesson here. There is a powerful need to immediately pathologize, devalue, or appropriate any experience that goes beyond the generally accepted. But spiritual maturity begins where a person can say: "I am not obliged to immediately reduce everything to a familiar schema." In this sense, the "angels" in the story are not only characters but also symbols of the fact that something sometimes appears in every life that cannot fit into the existing language of the world. And how we handle that otherness determines whether we kill our own depth within ourselves.
Hell as Psychological Truth, Not Just Religious Imagery
One of the strongest layers of the entire material is the description of the low level as a state of darkness, fruitless pain, inner unbearability, and the experience of eternal separation. Regardless of whether the reader takes this cosmology literally, the phenomenology of spiritual degradation is captured here with surprising accuracy. Hell is described not as external punishment but as consciousness that has become unbearable to itself.
This is an extraordinarily mature thought. People often fear punishment from without but far less often understand that the main punishment of evil is not sanctions but a change in the very structure of experience. When you long justify cruelty, contempt, dehumanization of another, you are not just committing acts—you are building within yourself a form of consciousness in which it is then impossible to live without torment. And this is a very subtle distinction: evil is dangerous not only for its consequences for victims but also because it gradually makes the perpetrator himself unfit for light.
Therefore, Mary's military episode is important not as an exotic detail but as a warning: any ideology that begins by dividing the world into carriers of value and the "unnecessary" already contains the seed of hell. And the more intellectually, rationally, and "objectively" this dehumanization is framed, the more dangerous it is for the soul.
Forgiveness as the Destruction of the Center of Violence
The culmination of Mary's entire spiritual line is not maternal glory but forgiveness of the crucifiers. One must not descend into sentimentality here. Such forgiveness does not mean amnesia, weakness, or refusal to call evil by its name. Its essence is different: not to let pain become a new absolute, not to allow suffering to finally capture one's view of reality.
Deeply, forgiveness here acts as an exit from the logic of the mirror. As long as I respond to the world only from my wound, evil continues to live in me in the form of retaliatory darkness. To forgive means to stop building identity from the pain inflicted on me. This does not erase tragedy but liberates consciousness from its dictatorship. In this understanding, forgiveness is not a moral recommendation but a metaphysical liberation.
And that is why Mary's account is especially powerful: height is achieved not by the event of chosenness but by the quality of consciousness in the face of ultimate trauma. Great is not she to whom the great was given, but she who did not turn the greatest pain into a right to hatred.
What These Two Voices Say to Modern People
The most important thing in these materials is not the cosmos, not the miracles, not the alternative metaphysics. Their central challenge is something else entirely:
how to live so as not to become embittered before the incomprehensible;
how to love without appropriating;
how to raise without breaking;
how to have strength without turning it into power over another's soul;
how to pass through the experience of chosenness, gift, talent, knowledge—and not make an altar to one's ego from it;
how, after a fall, not to declare oneself irrevocably lost.
If all this is expressed in one formula, it would sound like this: light comes not where there is no weakness, but where weakness does not become lies and cruelty. Joseph is weak in his doubt—but does not betray. Mary is vulnerable in her human destiny—but does not deify herself. The child Jesus is unusual—but is not proud. Therefore, their story in this telling turns out not to be a tale of infallible beings but an almost impossible yet recognizable image of inner incorruptibility amid fear, power, pain, and mystery.
That is why the main question after reading these sessions is not "Do I literally believe in such contacts?" but another:
Am I capable of becoming a person beside whom another's light will not be distorted?
Am I capable of not suppressing another's gift with my fear?
Am I capable, like Joseph, of taking responsibility without the right of ownership?
Am I capable, like Mary, of receiving a gift without a cult of my own exceptionality?
Am I capable, as their shared image teaches, of bringing into the world not self-affirmation but capacity?
And perhaps, this is where authentic spiritual psychology begins: not with the search for miracles, but with work on what kind of vessel I myself am.
SOURCE LINKS
https://blog.cassiopeia.center/svyatoe-semejstvo-iosif-obruchnik-o-zhizni-s-devoj
Cassiopedia #849: The Holy Family. Joseph the Betrothed on Life with the Virgin Mary, Childhood and Youth of Jesus.
00:00 Start of video.
00:19 Introduction. Topic of the broadcast.
"...Today I have invited a very interesting Spirit to speak, or rather his phantom. This is a very interesting personality. He is the first husband of the Mother of God Mary, that is, the man we know as Joseph the Betrothed, the stepfather of Jesus Christ, who cared for Him from childhood, who accepted Mary when she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit. We remember the Immaculate Conception from a representative of the planet Burhad. And Joseph accepted all this, he was there..."
01:46 Introduction of participants.
Irina: Hello, dear friends! I greet you! My name is Irina Podzorova. I am a contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, with the Spiritual World, with fine-material civilizations.
Today I have invited a very interesting Spirit to speak, or rather his phantom. This is a very interesting personality. He is currently incarnated. I remind you, he is incarnated on the planet Disaru as a person we know as Saint-Germain. Why a person? On Disaru live practically the same people as us.
Saint-Germain gave his consent for a conversation with his unincarnated part, with his Higher Self, and the Higher Self of Saint-Germain extracted a phantom with the memory of Joseph the Betrothed. This phantom maintains contact with Saint-Germain so that, if necessary, he can also be asked questions if such answers are needed.
So, Valery will be questioning him.
Valery: I greet you! I am Valery Merkulov, a psychologist and master of attunement with the Higher Self.
03:03 Joseph's acquaintance with Mary.
Valery: The first question, probably, will be phrased like this: how did you meet Mary? Let's start with that, because before that you already had a wife, as we learned, and even a son.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes.
Valery: How exactly did the meeting with Mary happen and where?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): I met Mary when she was still a child, a teenager. My first wife Louise (Luisa) was a good friend, a spiritual sister of Mary's mother, and they were friends with each other, often met, visited each other.
(Irina) Shows how the girl Mary at three years old was given to the temple, to the synagogue rather, that is, to the Jewish temple.
(Joseph the Betrothed) But her parents often visited her while they were alive. And I, with my wife while she was alive, also often went to her. That is, I visited and continued to visit after her parents' death. And after her parents' death and after my wife's death, when I had a son who was three years old, I proposed to Mary to enter into marriage, to marry me.
The thing is, in those times only male priests could serve in the temple, and girls could be raised there, but later they needed to marry so that a husband could care for them. And I proposed to her that when she became an adult, she enter into marital relations with me, and she agreed.
(Irina) Yes, he shows that he met her when she was still a child in the temple, because his wife was friends with Anna, Mary's mother.
06:39 Proposal of marriage. Mary's agreement and vow.
Valery: Okay, and how did events develop further? Was this your personal choice, or was it, say, predetermined? That is, did Angels speak about it, or were there any thoughts about it?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): We agreed in the Spiritual World before incarnation with each other. That is, we agreed in the Spiritual World to marry. That's why I had such a desire to tell her. And she had a desire to agree, although at that time she was still a little girl. But I came to her.
As I already said, after the death of my wife Louise, I came to her at the temple. She was only 8 years old at the time. But I asked her: "When you grow up, do you consent to be my wife?" So, still being an eight-year-old girl, she said that when she grew up, she could be my wife.
(Irina) That is, he kind of proposed to her, and that could have happened at that age.
(Joseph the Betrothed) There were simply no intimate relations. But it was called "promised to be my wife and not agree to marry anyone else." That is, it was such a promise, like a vow. And this vow was given in the presence of priests.
(Irina) He is now showing that it was such a promise.
(Joseph the Betrothed) Therefore, after my wife's death, I often went to her and waited until she could enter into marriage. And that happened.
At that time, a girl who turned 14 could enter into marriage. A boy became an adult at 12, and a girl at 13 (shows that it was later). And at 14, already the next year, she could enter into marriage to bear children.
09:27 Mary's pregnancy by the Holy Spirit. Joseph's reaction.
Valery: Okay, Joseph, and how did you receive the news that she would have a child, but not from you, but from the Holy Spirit? How did that happen?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): She told me about the contact with... these are messengers of God. She didn't call them aliens, because there was an understanding that they were messengers of God from Heaven. She told me that she was taken to Heaven, that she would become a mother. That a messenger of God, in your language "Angel" (only in our language there was a different word), this Angel offered her to be the mother of the Messiah. It was a huge responsibility for her, but she agreed because before incarnation she had such an agreement with Jesus Christ, and I had one with them.
(Irina) That is, it was such a common agreement, he shows me, a common task.
(Joseph the Betrothed) I believed her that she had contact. She said that the Holy Spirit entered her spiritually, and she conceived a child from God. Although, of course, at first when I heard such a thing, it was hard for me to believe it, but inside myself I knew it was true. That is, the Higher Self, the Spirit prompted me.
(Irina) He is now smiling, saying...
(Joseph the Betrothed) At that time, Mary and I were not yet in an intimate relationship. She was simply betrothed, engaged to me, and she didn't yet have a man. She was 14, and she told me this. First: "I was in heaven."
First of all, I loved her very much, she was much younger than me. She was, one might say, young enough to be my daughter. But I received this account as truth, that she wasn't making it up, such a revelation. She said that Angels took her to heaven, and that she gave consent to be the mother of Mashiach, the Messiah, whom everyone was waiting for, who was to fulfill ancient prophecies. I believed in this, and there were no doubts.
But when I realized she was pregnant, still, as a man... Imagine: your wife says she was met by Angels and they conceived a child for her spiritually. And you see: her belly is actually growing, she is pregnant. Agree, it's hard for a man to believe that.
Valery: Well yes.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): But I felt inside myself that it was so. But still, I said she needed to go to another city where no one knew her, because people would see she was pregnant, and she was putting herself in danger of being stoned for being unfaithful to me. Because people wouldn't believe that she conceived from the Holy Spirit, that is, from some bodiless being.
She explained to me that she was on a heavenly chariot, that an Angel approached her and directed a very bright Light from his palm, from his hand, onto her abdomen—and that was it, after that she became pregnant. For people, this was a miracle, they most likely wouldn't have believed it, so they could accuse her of being unfaithful to me. She had already promised to be my wife, and this could have become an accusation. This could have led to an accusation of adultery, because she was unfaithful to me, became pregnant, and kind of made it all up.
That's what people might have thought. And for this, according to the Law of Moses, stoning was prescribed even at such an age. Because at that age a girl was already considered an adult, already responsible for her actions. And so I decided to hide her.
She even frowned a little, was offended. That is, it was clear that she understood I didn't fully believe her.
15:10 Joseph's dream and the Angel's advice.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Then I went to sleep, and an Angel came to me in a dream. Now I would say—Archangel, but then he was simply Angel Gabriel to me. He said that indeed...
That is, I closed my eyes, fell asleep, and saw such a large luminous Angel who was taller than a man. Light emanated from him, but he had a human face, eyes, he was just all luminous. And he said: "I am Angel Gabriel! Do not be afraid to take your wife, she told the truth, she truly conceived from the Holy Spirit, do not doubt it." To which I replied, "I don't doubt, but people might think otherwise." Angel Gabriel told me: "So that they don't think otherwise, announce now that she is your wife and take this child as your own."
I said: "How is that possible if she is not yet my wife?" Angel Gabriel answered: "If you hadn't doubted to the end, you would have done it yourself—announced to all the priests and all your acquaintances that during one of your meetings at the temple (because I did come to her, and we walked together around the temple grounds) you had contact with her, and from that she became pregnant. And since you don't want to announce it, it means you don't fully believe that it is from the Holy Spirit, and you don't want to take this child on yourself, even putting Mary in danger." To which I said: "Yes, I am ready."
(Irina) That is, he fully believed, he shows.
17:22 The marriage ceremony and Mary moving into Joseph's house.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): And I went to the priests, announced that Mary was pregnant by me. I came to her and said that now she would move into my house, because I needed to acknowledge this child she was carrying as my own, so that there would be no danger for her.
She even said: "I will tell everyone that it is from the Holy Spirit." To which I replied: "They won't believe you, they will just laugh at you and be angry that you are hiding the name of the one you had relations with, and you're blaming everything on the Holy Spirit." After thinking, she agreed with this and agreed to confirm, when asked by the priests, that she really had contact with me.
Yes, it was a lie, but it was to save Mary's life. Therefore, as you have probably read in the Gospel, when priests, Pharisees, and other people met Jesus, no one had the question of whose son He was, that is, who His father was. He was recorded even in the registry books (shows) precisely as my son, so everyone considered Him my son, the son of Joseph.
Valery: And where and when was the wedding? And was there one, or was it just announced and that was it?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes, as a ceremony. When Mary already moved into my house, we had a marriage ceremony. People gathered there, our relatives, and this was when she was already pregnant.
But despite the wedding already having taken place, I did not touch her as a man until she gave birth to the child. First, because she was too young, and second, I wanted her to get used to me as a man and express such a desire herself.
Valery: Okay.
20:03 The birth of Jesus.
Valery: And how did you escape from Herod?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): This too was told to me by an Angel. Moreover, Mary had already given birth to the child, and this did not happen immediately. She gave birth to Jesus (shows). And indeed, from Nazareth I went to the city of Bethlehem to register for the census, because my ancestors were from there. Yes, that was the case. And Mary was with me, my first son was.
(Irina) Now he shows that he went there with some relatives, that is, with his sister. Joseph also had brothers and sisters.
(Joseph the Betrothed) And Mary and I went together. We arrived in Bethlehem. But there was no room in the inns where rooms were rented. And Mary began having contractions. Indeed, I found there for a lot of money (I was a carpenter and earned well) a barn with animals (shows). And indeed, Jesus was born in a stable, just in a barn.
And about a year passed, a little over a year. That is, we didn't go to Egypt immediately.
22:06 Visit of the Magi, their worship of the infant Jesus.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): This was after the Magi came to us, three Magi. It's also true that they came, told us many things, and gave us a lot of gold, incense (shows a pouch filled with gold coins). And they were Magi from...
(Irina) This is east of Israel, like Babylon. Yes, Babylon.
(Joseph the Betrothed) There, where the city of Babylon was, lived these Magi who practiced astrology, spirit summoning, and so on, they were like contactees. And they received a message that the Messiah, Mashiach, that is, the King of all the Earth, was born. And they came. Moreover, they couldn't find us at first; they first came to Jerusalem. Then the Angels themselves guided them—they lit a star.
(Irina) Now he shows the story I already know about the Magi. "Magi" is just a translation; they were magicians.
(Joseph the Betrothed) And after their visit, when they stood right before the child... Jesus was just starting to walk, a little over a year old, He was sitting in His mother's arms, mother Mary took Him in her arms. And they, in such expensive clothes, on horses, all so rich, well-groomed men, they just entered our house.
(Irina) This is some kind of hut, I can see now, low, with a low ceiling.
(Joseph the Betrothed) And they bowed right before Him, before the child, as before a King, three richly dressed adult men with beards. We were very surprised then, especially me, because we were poor. Well, not poor, I say I earned money, but in any case not like them, it was like different classes.
And they bowed down to Him like that, knelt and began saying something in their language. And He looked at them with such a meaningful gaze and reached out to them. But they were even afraid to touch Him. And they gave us rich incense, which, by the way, could be sold dearly, and that pouch filled with gold coins.
25:20 Joseph's dream and the flight to Egypt.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): And after they left, when perhaps a few days or a week had passed, I had a dream that we needed to go to another country. Because this king, how to put it, he was the Roman emperor's viceroy, that is, like a king, but under him, he wanted to kill Jesus. Because it was prophesied that Jesus would be a king, and he thought He would overthrow him or something? That's what he decided.
(Irina) Very seriously then, I see, all kings took all kinds of prophecies seriously, they believed in them very much.
(Joseph the Betrothed) And so we left.
(Irina) Well yes, he is showing that now.
(Joseph the Betrothed) I believed it myself.
(Irina) Now let's ask. Joseph, why did you believe this dream and decide to leave? Maybe it was just a dream? Maybe it was some fantasy of yours? How can you take your wife and child and go somewhere after a dream? Maybe you just dreamed it?
This question interests me. Tell us something interesting?
Valery: Yes, an interesting question. In our time, a dream is just a dream. But then, all hints, all dreams were taken very seriously.
Irina: He says: "Now you take it lightly. But then people used to act on it. If someone had a dream, they would follow it. They considered it the will of God, or of the gods, if they believed in many gods. This was normal."
Interesting how it was for you: you'd have a dream—and that was it.
27:31 Language of communication with the Magi.
Valery: Joseph, a question: what language did you speak? Many theologians believe it was Aramaic, kind of the accepted Eastern language.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): In Hebrew. There is Hebrew, but there is its literary variety, and we spoke a kind of common, simple language.
(Irina) Like in Russia, there is a language in books, literary, and there is the one spoken in villages, some simplified version.
Valery: Colloquial.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes, colloquial Hebrew. And we wrote in it. Mary was taught at the temple to write and read, and I also knew how to write in Hebrew.
(Irina) Shows how they write these letters and can read them, that they were literate.
Valery: And these Magi, the wise men, you didn't understand them, right? Only Christ understood what they were saying.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): They spoke with us. One of them knew a few words in our language, so he communicated with us, but poorly, with an accent.
(Irina) I see that he was trying to choose his words. But when they prayed to Jesus, they muttered something in an incomprehensible language.
29:20 The journey to Egypt.
Valery: And after the dream, Joseph, you went to Egypt?
Irina: Yes, here. I was surprised they just up and left after a dream, just packed everything and went.
And he shows them walking. And not just to some other city, but to another country to the south. Shows how they joined a caravan. At first they had no means of transport, and they took a donkey, then they found a camel, put their bundle of belongings on it. Joseph seated Mary with the child—with Jesus—on this camel, and led it by the bridle.
Valery: A bridle?
Irina: Yes. Then they stopped, burned a fire in some field. It was a fairly long journey. And the coins the Magi gave also helped. Because with one coin, he now shows, he bought a lot of food and water to take with them, and the camel too.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): At first I had a donkey. I didn't have a horse, but I had a donkey that was also used to transport goods, and we first moved around with it. Then along the way we found a camel in one settlement. I also bought it with that money. It can carry more and is more enduring. And I sold the donkey.
31:14 Life of the Holy Family in Egypt.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Then we came to Egypt, to a city dedicated to the sun (shows). There was a pyramid there, and the first night when we arrived, the sun was setting, and we slept right in the shadow of that pyramid.
(Irina) It was just some...
(Joseph the Betrothed): What's special about that? It was warm, we could light a fire and sleep next to it.
(Irina) That's how people lived.
Valery: And how long did you stay in Egypt?
Irina: How long were you in Egypt?
(Joseph the Betrothed) Yes, we stayed about two years. Almost two years.
Valery: That is, until Herod passed away?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes. And then, again, how did I find out that he had passed away? By the way, an Angel appeared to me again in a dream and told me to return.
(Irina) See, he followed the dream again, didn't think it was some fantasy. What if he returned and it turned out not to be true?
(Joseph the Betrothed) No, we believed in dreams back then, we believed that any dream gives information for life.
(Irina) Well yes, you had an interesting life.
32:52 Joseph's encounters with Angels (Burhadians).
Valery: Tell me, Joseph, did you meet Angels in person? That is, did the Burhadians come in body?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes, they came when we returned, when Jesus was 5, 6, 7 years old, that is, when He was a child. And they often came in the evening.
(Irina) Shows such an evening. And they enter, tall people with white skin and glowing eyes stooping low. They were like Angels.
(Joseph the Betrothed) And we didn't even consider that they were composed of physical bodies; we thought they were just temporarily materialized.
(Irina) That is, they considered extraterrestrials to be spiritual beings who just temporarily took on this form for people.
Valery: Well yes, we wouldn't know either if Burhadians came to us; how would we perceive them?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes, we didn't perceive them as extraterrestrials, we perceived them simply as Angels who live in the Kingdom of Heaven. And why are they visible physically? We thought they deliberately take on this form to bring us some message or help.
(Irina) That is, they didn't consider them inhabitants of other planets.
Valery: Okay. And with what message did they come?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): They came, conversed with Jesus, talked with Him a lot, and with Mary. They would lead Jesus away somewhere, then bring Him back. And only later, when Jesus had grown up, did I find out that they also took Him on heavenly chariots to different countries.
(Irina) He now shows Jesus at about 10-12 years old, and I see Him sitting and telling Joseph and His mother where He had been.
(Joseph the Betrothed) That He had been to different countries, where there are high mountains, where there is a huge ocean. They took Him to different countries and even showed... For example, He told how He stood in some desert place, looked at the sky, and there was a huge luminous sphere. And He said that this is what our world looks like from there, He said that's what Earth looks like from the Moon. For me, of course, it was unclear what that was.
36:03 The shepherds' worship of the Messiah. The upbringing of Jesus Christ by his parents.
Valery: Okay, and what was His upbringing like? You were still a father. How did you raise your children?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): A stepfather has all the rights of a father. After Jesus' birth, people also came to us. When He was born, literally at dawn that very night, shepherds came. They said that Angels had appeared to them in the field and told them that Mashiach, the Messiah, was born. The shepherds also asked to see Him, and we showed Him.
(Irina) Shows an infant wrapped in some kind of sheet.
(Joseph the Betrothed) But what amazed me: He practically never cried. He was always very calm, could look into your eyes for a long time. He started speaking quite early. He was very different from other children in this. And next to Him, inexplicable peace and Love were always felt. When I took Him in my arms and held Him, He looked at me with such a gaze as if He was my father, and His Spirit seemed to take me in His arms.
Valery: And did it ever happen that you didn't scold Him, but had some complaints about Him?
Irina: So, interesting!
Valery: As a child. After all, He's a child, and you, Joseph, are a father, no matter how you look at it. In that situation, what happened?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): He always followed all the rules of our house, always obeyed me, obeyed his mother. He often went out into the street, played with other kids. And when His brothers and sisters appeared, He began to spend a lot of time with them too.
But I want to say that I raised Him according to Jewish law, according to the Torah. Because I myself was a believer and believed that He is Mashiach, but I thought that since He is still a child, for Him to realize His mission, He needed to learn. And immediately after His birth, on the eighth day I brought Him to the temple, where He underwent the rite of circumcision. I remind you that boys were to be circumcised on the eighth day after birth. You certainly know what that is? And He also went through it, when prayers are read over you and circumcision is performed.
39:47 Jesus' early years. Features of His development.
Valery: Did He cry after that?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): No. He rarely cried at all. Even when learning to walk, if He fell, tripped somewhere, He would just grimace, shake His head, get up, and keep going. That's how it was. That's how He differed from other children, and everyone was always drawn to Him.
There were, of course, those who were very angry with Him, who didn't like Him, but most were drawn to Him. Especially the neighbor's children, they followed Him in crowds, because He told such stories at 5 years old! He learned to speak very well and early. And when I sent Him to a rabbi to learn to read and write God's laws, that rabbi called me over and said: "I show Him a letter, and He already shows me the next one." He seemed to know everything and amazed many with His development.
Valery: But He also differed in build and skin color, He was lighter, right?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): He was lighter, yes.
Valery: And how was that perceived by others, that He was different?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Since I officially declared that He was my son, there were no questions about that. There were questions about His development.
41:36 Jesus' communication with rabbis and believers.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): And He always went to the temple, the synagogue, He had books. He always, even in our city, stayed after services with the priests, asked them questions. When He was even 8 years old. Where have you seen an eight-year-old child who came to the temple, the service ended, and He turns to the priest: "I have questions about the Torah." And the priest first: "Well, yes, ask." And He told him such things that even an adult wouldn't understand. That's how it was, He often communicated with the priests, with these rabbis. And that well-known episode when at 12 years old He stayed in Jerusalem, when Mary and I were searching for Him—that wasn't the only such case. He often communicated with believers, with rabbis. He always had books—Torah scrolls.
And when He was about 20 (shows) or perhaps 19, He, together with His cousin John, whom you call the Baptist, joined a religious group called the Essenes [a branch of Judaism, a sect that existed during Christ's earthly ministry]. They constantly went there, traveled to various cities. And He began to fast, adopt their way of life.
I knew this was a sect, and I even told Him: "This is not traditional Torah, why did you join this sect?" I expressed it in that form. And He looked at me and said: "Do not look at the name that people give, but at the essence that this teaching awakens in your Heart."
(Irina) So He was already giving such instructions, I see, to His parents. What do you say?
Valery: Well yes. It's Jesus.
44:25 Jesus' coming of age. Beginning of healing.
Valery: But in the Bible, from 12 years old nothing is said about Christ. That is, a whole chunk—from 12 to 18—doesn't say where He is, what He is, how.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): For us, every day was an adventure. He would disappear with these Angels, they could even take Him away for several days. And I would later ask Mary: "What's happening?" She would say: "Don't worry, He's studying the world with them, they're showing Him." Then He would appear.
He began healing quite early. He would lay on hands, read—not a prayer, but something whispered to Himself—and the person would begin to recover. There were many phenomena around Him that for ordinary people are miracles, one might say. And there were many such examples.
Yes, I did teach Him carpentry. I showed Him how to make tables, chairs, beds from wood, how to repair them, and even how to build houses from wood (shows that he had saws, axes). I passed on woodworking to Him, but He wasn't particularly interested in that; He was more oriented toward religion and spirituality.
Valery: But He did do something, right? Some tables?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes, He helped. He helped me with work, but that was quite rare when He was at home.
46:27 The beginning of Jesus' preaching.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Often His friends would come for Him, some people I didn't know, and say: "We want to talk with you." And He would leave everything and go somewhere with them. And when I asked Mary: "What's happening?"—she always told me: "But He is the Messiah, so He preaches about God." That is, He began preaching at about five years old, began telling everyone about God, even earlier perhaps. In our city, He was already quite a well-known figure.
I know that in the Gospel it says Jesus began preaching at 30. But that was officially, when He underwent what you call "Baptism" and began His public ministry. That was when He decided to go out and gather disciples. Before that, He preached about God, probably, with every word. Every conversation, whatever it was, He always turned to spirituality, to God.
47:48 Jesus' disciples among Joseph's relatives.
Valery: About the disciples. Your eldest son, Joseph, became a disciple, he became an apostle of the seventy.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): And my other children were also His disciples, only they didn't accept it immediately, later. They doubted for a long time because they were among other people, and other people called Jesus a "sectarian," and some claimed He was possessed by evil forces. And they didn't really believe in His mission. Although, of course, Mary and I explained to them, but they still somehow doubted. And later, when Jesus began to gain fame, they began to listen to Him. But they became disciples after I left incarnation.
Valery: And your younger brother Cleopas—was there such a person? He is also considered one of the 70 apostles.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Yes, many of my relatives communicated with Him. But that was after my discarnation in any case.
Valery: And Simeon the kinsman—who was he? Was there such a Simeon?
Irina: Did you have Simeon the kinsman?
(Joseph the Betrothed) Yes, he is also my brother, but a cousin.
(Irina) So there was a fairly large family of relatives.
Valery: But he is also recorded as one of the 70 apostles.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): And that was after my discarnation. All these apostles—both the 12 and the 70—appeared after that.
49:48 Joseph's discarnation. Where was Jesus at this time?
Valery: So, how did your discarnation happen? How did you experience it, and where did it happen?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): I discarnated from heart disease. I was 60 years old, it was in my own city, in Nazareth.
Jesus was not nearby at that moment, He was in another city, preaching. How was He preaching? With these Essenes: He met with them and, accordingly, lived with them for some time. I can't even say "studied," because He would always give such responses when they tried to teach Him that it was clear He was the one teaching.
Because there were many people around Him, older in age, who tried to give Him their opinion. And He would always say: "No, I think this way." He said it respectfully, but He didn't agree even with older people if it contradicted His inner convictions. He could directly argue with an elder, although it wasn't very polite, but He would speak with such words and tone that the elder simply didn't know what to answer.
For example, a priest says: "One must honor elders." Jesus answers: "The main thing is to honor God, and that elders not become idols." Well, what can you answer to that?!
Valery: Wise.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Well, what can you answer? It would seem like impertinence, right? But at the same time, there's nothing to say in response. And there were many such examples.
Accordingly, when I was dying, I was ill.
(Irina) Shows how my heart ached, something like angina. It clenches my heart, like anxiety; I see concern now for his son, for his children: "What will happen next?"
(Joseph the Betrothed) And then I felt very bad with my heart. I lay down on the bed. Mary was nearby, she brought me some herbal infusion. I drank it, fell asleep, and in a dream left incarnation. I was 60 years old.
Valery: 60 years—was that considered a lot or a little for that time?
Irina: Well, how? Average. Yes, quite an average number.
Valery: So, he was already elderly, then?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Well yes, there were people who lived longer, of course. But 60 was already a respectable age.
53:09 Joseph's spiritual level, the lesson of his life.
Valery: Remind us, please, what spiritual level did you reach?
Irina: He shows me—22.
Valery: And what would you like to say to us now?
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): Now I am incarnated on the planet Disaru.
I want to say that the lesson of my life in the incarnation as Joseph was to listen to oneself, to trust God, despite doubts, despite the surrounding world sowing doubts, despite events contradicting your perceptions. It is necessary to trust God in order to walk your path with dignity.
54:15 Conclusion.
Valery: Thank you! Thank you very much! It was very useful and interesting information.
Irina (Joseph the Betrothed): I thank you.
(Irina) I thank Saint-Germain and I thank Joseph, the single Spirit of these two personalities.
I thank my Higher Self for assistance in this contact. I thank Valery.
Thank you, dear friends. I hope you found it interesting to learn about Jesus' childhood. It turns out He was already active even as a child. Because He preached about God to children, as I understand, and even to adults, even communicating with priests. A very interesting child. I, for example, found it very interesting to learn about this.
Thank you, dear friends! And until next time! Bye!
Valery: Thank you.
55:39 End of video.
November 27, 2025
Conference Participants:
Irina Podzorova – contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, with fine-material civilizations, and with the Spiritual World;
Valery Merkulov – psychologist, master of attunement with the Higher Self;
Joseph the Betrothed – phantom of the Spirit incarnated on the planet Disaru as a person known by the name Saint-Germain, first husband of the Mother of God Mary, stepfather of Jesus Christ.
https://blog.cassiopeia.center/duh-bogorodicy-o-zhizni-na-burhade-detstvo-iisusa
#779 The Spirit of the Mother of God on Life on Burhad. Jesus' Childhood. The Logic of War and Peace. On Low Vibrations.
00:00 Start of video.
00:26 Conference excerpts.
"...I remember that when He was learning to read and write in Hebrew, He had teachers. And when they began to teach Him, He demonstrated very great progress, developed quickly in this regard, and it was evident that He was not memorizing letters and their forms, but seemed to be remembering..."
"...And one of my incarnations in a male body was connected with war on Burhad. There I incarnated as an inhabitant of that planet who became a military man, led an army, and simultaneously he was a major scientist-biologist—like a military scientist..."
"...Irina (I know this incarnation of hers) had an attitude of compassion, and it combined with an even greater desire to protect these defenseless people. But there was no pride or hatred toward these enemies, toward the fascists..."
01:44 Greetings and introduction of participants.
Irina: Hello, dear friends! My name is Irina Podzorova. I am a contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, with the Spiritual World, with fine-material civilizations.
Today we have an unincarnated Spirit from the 24th level. The Spirit who in his last incarnation was incarnated on Earth and known to us as Mary, who gave birth to Christ, that is, the Mother of God. The Spirit of the Mother of God is with us today. And Mikhail will be asking her questions.
Mikhail: Hello, my dear friends, friends of "Cassiopedia"! Hello, Mary! My name is Mikhail Vladilenovich. I am from Earth.
02:36 Names of the Mother of God.
Mikhail: Mary, please tell us, what were you called when you were the mother of Yeshua?
Irina (Mother of God): Miriam.
Mikhail: Miriami?
Irina: I now hear Miriami, with a soft "M" at the end. Not "M," but a soft one.
Mikhail: Miriami. A very beautiful name. Mi-ri-ami—very beautiful. It flows. And what are you called now in the Spiritual World?
Irina (Mother of God): Mother of Earth.
(Irina): Shows that she is Mother of Earth, Mother of the Universe, like a Universal Mother.
Mikhail: And is there a single word for that?
Irina (Mother of God): Mother of the Logos. Because Jesus is the incarnated Logos.
Mikhail: But do you have some name? Or is that just how they address you?
Irina (Mother of God): That is the name.
Mikhail: Mother of the Logos?
Irina (Mother of God): Yes. That's how I'm addressed.
Mikhail: I will address you that way too.
Irina (Mother of God): You can address me as "Mary," because on Earth many address me that way.
Mikhail: Mary. Very good.
Irina (Mother of God): The name Mary came from the name Miriami.
03:59 Interpretations of the name "Mikhail."
Mikhail: Well, I'm Mikhail, and that also comes from "Moshe."
Irina (Mother of God): No. Mikhail is exactly that.
Mikhail: Is there a name "Mikhail" in Hebrew?
Irina (Mother of God): Of course. It translates as "who is like God."
Mikhail: Ah. I see. Thank you very much.
Irina (Mother of God): "Mi" is "who," "khai" is "like," and "el" is "god," the name of god, generally the designation of the word "god," any god.
Mikhail: "El," right?
Irina (Mother of God): The plural is "Elohim," the singular is "El" or "El."
Mikhail: Many of our names end in -el, by the way.
Irina: Mikhail, Gavriel. Yes?
Mikhail: Yes. Gavriel. Many.
05:01 Number of manvantaras the Spirit of the Mother of God has lived.
Mikhail: Tell us, Mary, how many manvantaras have you already lived? Not incarnations in a manvantara, but total manvantaras.
Irina (Mother of God): I remember 325 manvantaras.
Mikhail: So. But that's relatively few compared to how many there have been.
Irina (Mother of God): Yes.
Mikhail: That's few. But I don't really know how many there were in total.
Irina (Mother of God): Those in which I was.
Mikhail: Then let's start with a "warm-up"... Actually, today the conversation will be about your incarnations. I'll ask you to tell us about two incarnations where you suffered greatly as a Spirit, lowered your Spirit, and about one incarnation where you rose very much, perhaps even to the 24th level.
Irina (Mother of God): I am now at the 24th, which I reached in the last one.
Mikhail: Only in the last one?
06:13 Stories from Jesus' childhood.
Mikhail: I would very much like to hear some story we don't yet know from Yeshua's childhood.
Irina (Mother of God): I don't know which story you don't know. You can see better. It's better if you ask questions.
Mikhail: We had a meeting, a broadcast, where you told us, and I remembered very well how Yeshua, when asked what He wanted to eat, replied that "the main thing is not what you eat, but with Love for God." That really stuck with me, it was very instructive, and I remember that story every time I sit down to eat. Maybe something else like that from childhood?
Irina (Mother of God): I remember when He was learning to read and write in Hebrew, He had teachers. And when they began to teach Him, He demonstrated very great progress, developed quickly in this regard, and it was evident that He was not memorizing letters and their forms, but seemed to be remembering. And when He was about 6, I once asked Him: "So are you learning the letters, or do you already know them?"
(Irina) Because (shows) He was writing something on a scroll without looking at another, that is, He was writing in a notebook without looking at the textbook, so to speak.
(Mother of God) And I asked: "Do you already know, or are you learning?" He, a six-year-old boy, raised his eyes to me, looked very seriously, and said: "All knowledge is inside us; you need to find the approach to it, and for that you need to believe that it's in us, and then it will unpack." I'm saying it in Russian now. That's what a six-year-old child said.
What else amazed me: He already in childhood realized who He was, that He is the Firstborn Son of God, and even spoke about it. But at the same time, He treated everyone absolutely as equals—not only us, His parents, but also His peers, other children. He never felt proud before anyone, never exalted Himself, and never said He was better than others. And it's not that He didn't say it; He didn't even think it. There were no signs of such thoughts in Him; there was so much Love in Him that I didn't see in those around Him, even among adults.
Mikhail: And did He ever fight?
Irina (Mother of God): No. He knew how to stop fights between boys with words alone. He would find the approach to each one and say things that made the children who had fallen into anger immediately disperse with shame.
(Irina) What do you think of that?
Mikhail: I, in principle, expected that, but I thought maybe there were some situations where...
10:31 Where thoughts come from.
Mikhail: Tell me, please, Mary, how do you think: about knowledge, He said that all knowledge is inside us—do all thoughts that come to us come from the Spiritual World (excluding our Higher Self), or are there thoughts that are ours?
Irina (Mother of God): But you are part of the Spiritual World.
Mikhail: I mean, if we exclude our Higher Self, our Spirit, do all thoughts come from God, or can we invent something ourselves?
Irina (Mother of God): We can ourselves.
Mikhail: Thank you.
Irina (Mother of God): For that we have Reason, to produce thoughts—it's an instrument for thoughts. You can think something yourself, and when thoughts are transmitted to you, you feel that you didn't think them yourself.
Mikhail: Yes, that happens.
Irina: That is, there is such a distinction.
Mikhail: Yes. I agree.
11:53 An incarnation of the Mother of God where there was a lowering of spiritual level.
Mikhail: Okay, Mary, let's take some incarnation of yours. I'll ask you to tell us in detail about situations from this incarnation: what you planned, but ended up lowering your Spirit significantly. Maybe something like that happened to you? This would be instructive for us, showing where we might stumble—some such incarnation. Maybe not from this manvantara, and maybe not even earthly, but still from the physical world. Because the plasmoid world wouldn't be as instructive for us.
Irina (Mother of God): I incarnated many times on the planet Burhad at different times of that planet (meaning in the physical world). And among other things, I incarnated on the planet Burhad when it was not yet part of the Interstellar Union, and there were constant wars, very frequent. I incarnated there several times then, in different bodies—female and male.
And one of my incarnations in a male body was connected with war on Burhad. There I incarnated as an inhabitant of that planet who became a military man, led an army, and simultaneously he was a major scientist-biologist—like a military scientist. A scientist who also held a military rank, that is, a man of science who had his own scientific works, his own scientific school, and his own military rank. Because it was simultaneously a service in the army of that state formation, one of the countries where he worked at the time.
Burhad was divided into certain countries, some of which had a republican form of government, and some had a monarchical one. Then I incarnated as a Burhadian who lived in a monarchical state, and I incarnated into a fairly well-known family egregore. In earthly terms, it was something like a count or a duke. And he simultaneously took two jobs—as a biologist and went into the army line.
Mikhail: A small question: at what level relative to our earthly one was science and that way of life? Were there stone axes or already nuclear rockets?
Irina (Mother of God): It was about 32 million years ago. The civilization of Burhad, I remind you, has existed for about 300 million years. But at that time, no one from Burhad flew into space. On the planet itself, there was a fairly developed civilization, a transport network based on solar batteries, on internal heat, which you call "Earth's heat." On Burhad, there is also such a thing, thermal sources. They also extracted energy from oxygen ions irradiated by sunlight, that is, from ozone. There were devices similar to your ozonizers, only they produced magnetic energy, which was then converted by a special converter into light, heat, or electricity. And these states often warred with each other for various reasons.
I incarnated there as a man from the 15th level. He was simultaneously a senior officer of that state and a biologist, a scientist. And it turned out that I there developed biological means for destroying intelligent Burhadians. That is, I developed biological weapons. I developed more than 30 different poisons and delivery methods, including with delayed action, so that no one would suspect and put on protective gear.
(Irina) What do you think?
Mikhail: It comes to my mind that every saint has a past.
Irina (Mother of God): I also worked with infectious agents—viruses, microbes. Developed types of viruses that, for example, gradually cause inflammation in the skeletal system, dissolve it, and after them, bone cells turn into liquid mass. That is, parts of the person's body begin to fall off.
Mikhail: We are still far from such technologies.
Irina: What do you think of such viruses?
Mikhail: I don't like such viruses. But, you understand, Mary, somehow we have a completely different image of you.
Irina (Mother of God): You asked about such an incarnation of mine.
Mikhail: Yes.
Irina (Mother of God): And it all ended with me living there, in earthly years, a little over a thousand years. And the Spirit of this man left... He died, by the way, one might say in battle, because the bunker where he was sitting was hit by a plasma sphere in one of the battles, from which even the protective fields couldn't defend—they simply collapsed. And through the windows and doors, a stream of incandescent plasma burst in like water. I was sitting at the table, and I was engulfed by a wave. The temperature of this plasma is about 10,000 degrees Celsius. Nothing remained of my body instantly. And I ended up at the 3rd level.
20:40 The task of the incarnation as a Burhadian military scientist.
Mikhail: And when you incarnated as this man, what was the intention?
Irina: A thousand years, a little more, and he's still so young! She shows me: quite young.
Mikhail: What was the intention in incarnation?
Irina (Mother of God): The task of that incarnation was precisely the development of peacefulness, harmony, Love, reconciliation of opponents—that is, to eliminate contradictions between different ideologies. Because I incarnated there into a family close to government circles, as I said, counts. But unfortunately, in that incarnation I allowed mental attitudes to be placed in my mind that constructed a reality far from divine perfection. For example, they justified depriving other intelligent Spirits of life due to political and economic disagreements.
22:15 Why are wars waged?
Mikhail: And how? You said you allowed these beliefs to enter. Could you have not allowed them? Did you know about the Spiritual World, about God? Or was that not particularly known at that time?
Irina (Mother of God): It was known. But it was combined with struggle against each other, because it was believed (now I'll explain in earthly language) that by pursuing their political interests, each state was also defending economic interests, and when interests clashed with others, conflict resulted. In this conflict, each side was convinced that the strongest would win, and strength comes from God. And that the entire Spiritual World helps to win and fight against injustice. Injustice, respectively, was called what one didn't like or what was disadvantageous. Well, does that sound familiar?
Mikhail: Familiar, yes. We have that too. And even if we take what Selbet did here, they also apparently had similar thoughts. After all, they are also members of the Interstellar Union. Everyone knows that God exists.
Irina (Mother of God): Only this was before the Interstellar Union.
Mikhail: Yes. I understand.
23:56 Space research on Burhad before the Interstellar Union.
Irina (Mother of God): There was no Interstellar Union yet, not even a space program. Scientists from Burhad itself studied space through telescopes, cameras. There were special devices that flew there like satellites. But the Burhadians themselves did not leave the confines of Burhad. There were, of course, teams of astral travelers, contactees with various civilizations through the astral world. But we didn't fly to other civilizations, and no one flew to us physically either.
24:45 How the Burhadian chose a destructive path.
Mikhail: And how do you think, from the Spiritual World now you can see, how did it happen that you switched to these destructive energies? Did you start in them from the beginning? Or were you on a light path and then turned onto a dark path?
Irina (Mother of God): Initially, as a child, my Higher Self showed me the light path. But when I, in this male body, left my parents' home and began to live independently, I met my peers with whom I became friends and who served in the army. Initially, I planned to go into science. But I met those who served in the army and started suggesting that I enter an educational institution that trained officers. Thanks to my status and social position of that family where I was, I could do that.
26:06 The influence of environment on worldview system.
Mikhail: And what attracted you, drew you into the situation where you encountered these people? You were supposed to be doing something else initially. Where could the mistake be made? That's just my question.
Irina (Mother of God): Any meeting is not accidental. The mistake was that instead of explaining the path of Love and Light to these friends, I accepted their explanation that the interests of one's state must be placed above the ideals of Light. That is, this meeting was so that I could practice my Love, my faith, and be a beacon for them, showing them the way to God.
Mikhail: Was that your idea? I mean, you went with them for that?
Irina (Mother of God): I don't understand the question.
Mikhail: Okay.
Irina (Mother of God): I'm just saying that any meeting is not accidental. And I met these Burhadians to bring them Light toward God, to fulfill my purpose. But I listened to them, though they were leading me astray. If we use Aesopian language, they tempted me with opportunities, and spiritual development and the Light of God became less important to me. Do you understand?
Mikhail: You lost your path and made one wrong decision, which led to such changes.
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, and then it began (shows) to snowball. I, this man, when I went to study at the military institute, fell into the hands of experienced teachers who systematically built for me a worldview based on strength, valor, absence of fear, and the desire to defeat opponents with any type of weapon.
And even when some doubts arose... And I did have doubts about whether this was right, I even turned to my personal mentor, a psychologist, with these doubts. But there the system was built so that no one reproached anyone for this. On the contrary, they explained, showed examples. And I was quickly convinced that Love, peace, and well-being for all is, of course, good, but only when our state takes a leading position. And if we love those who don't love us, we'll simply be weak. And then it would already be a lack of love for ourselves and a departure from God.
Mikhail: And why didn't the Angels and those who...
Irina: I say: what do you think of that logic?
Mikhail: Well, this logic is understandable. We have the same. There's a war going on right now, many people are dying.
29:59 Very dangerous pride.
Mikhail: Question: we often hear and see that those people who quickly lower their spiritual level—Angels or the Higher Self decide to discarnate them. But why weren't you discarnated, seeing that you were falling into the abyss?
Irina (Mother of God): Because they gave chances. There were chances to leave this, to raise your vibrations. I just didn't use them. And why exactly the 3rd level? Not because of these discarnations, but precisely because when I created this weapon, I did it with a special feeling. It was a feeling of the uselessness for the Universe of those people who opposed our state. That is, this is a form of pride. Do you understand what I mean?
Mikhail: Very dangerous pride.
Irina (Mother of God): This is a form of pride: we live here and are needed by everyone. We bring development, we bring the right ideology of justice. And our state was such, quite social, fair. There were social benefits for all its residents, payments, help for the needy. That is, it was all built very clearly. At the same time, there was an image of the enemy, so to speak, that in neighboring states there were tyrannical, despotic forms of government that wanted to impose themselves on us. I knew for sure, I communicated...
31:49 Methods of temptation, psychological influence.
Irina: This man. She now assumes his image.
(Mother of God) I also communicated with representatives of other states at that time. That is, it was a communication, something like what you now call the internet. We had something similar, various correspondence at a distance. And I knew that they had a similar image about us formed by their governments. And this outraged me. Because I lived in this state and knew that they were always writing lies. And I didn't live there, so I believed that what was said about them was always true.
Mikhail: Yes, we have that too. On Earth, where I live, we have that too.
Irina (Mother of God): And because the methods of temptation are the same, regardless of the planet: on Selbet, Burhad, Earth—everywhere. It may manifest differently, that is, for different reasons, but the meaning will be the same, that "we are this, and they are that."
Mikhail: Of course.
Irina (Mother of God): And for an intelligent being of any race to take some weapon and discarnate someone similar to themselves, you first need to influence their psyche, their Soul. You first need to convince them that it's right, why it's right, and why it's absolutely impossible to do without it.
33:32 Training warriors and compassion.
Irina (Mother of God): I know that there are wars on Earth now, there are armies, a fairly developed military structure in almost all states. And of course, there is a special system of training warriors, which is very similar to the Selbetian, Burhadian, and any other where the desire for victory regardless of the number of casualties is cultivated. It is believed that counting casualties and showing compassion for them is weakness, which is dangerous and can lead to defeat, and that you yourself will become a victim.
(Irina) What do you think?
Mikhail: Very valuable and timely information for us.
Irina: She now says: "You're a man, and you served in the army, right?"
Mikhail: Yes.
Irina (Mother of God): You know what I'm talking about.
Mikhail: I know what you're talking about.
Now I'll have a question for Irina Sergeevna.
Irina (Mother of God): You were there. How did your commanders train you? "Don't be afraid of anything, go forward! Compassion for the enemy? He's your enemy!"—right?
Mikhail: No. It wasn't like that.
Irina (Mother of God): Well, maybe in a different form.
Mikhail: In the Soviet Union, we respected the enemy. And even Comrade Stalin said that "Hitler comes and goes, but the German people remain." We always had an attitude toward enemies...
Irina (Mother of God): The people are one thing. I mean the attitude in the army.
Mikhail: And in the army too, we treated prisoners humanely. Well, maybe...
Irina (Mother of God): Prisoners are one thing. But the one who fights against the state—that's different.
Mikhail: Of course. That's an enemy, yes.
Irina (Mother of God): That's an enemy. And if you show compassion to him, to an actively fighting enemy, you were taught that it could slow your reaction. If you don't strike ruthlessly and immediately destroy the enemy, it could lead to him, feeling no pity for you, killing or wounding you. And this way, if he puts you out of action, you weaken the unit you're fighting in, and ultimately the might of your state.
Mikhail: That's right.
Irina: What do you think of that understanding?
Mikhail: It's a logical understanding. It couldn't be any other way in the army.
36:05 Irina's incarnation as a warrior.
Mikhail: And now I have a question for Irina Sergeevna. I know that you, Ira, incarnated as a warrior in a previous incarnation.
Irina: Yes, I had that too. But I wasn't a scientist, just... When I incarnated during the Great Patriotic War, I wasn't an officer or any scientist, I was a simple soldier.
Mikhail: But you raised your Spirit then, right?
Irina: Yes, I had growth, on the contrary. She now says: "It depends not on participating in war, but on the attitude toward what's happening."
Mikhail: Right!
Irina (Mother of God): Irina (I know this incarnation of hers) had an attitude of compassion, and it combined with an even greater desire to protect these defenseless people. But there was no pride or hatred toward these enemies, toward the fascists.
Mikhail: And were you a man?
Irina: Yes. And there was such anger toward them when they... There were various stories in the military unit about what they did in occupied territories. But I was, firstly, the son of a priest (I remembered this life). And in childhood, before the Great Patriotic War, this boy dreamed of becoming a priest. His father and mother read the Bible to him, he prayed. And he went to the front with this faith. He even shows that he hid some cross, some icon, although it was an atheistic state. And when there was anger toward the enemies, this man, who was my incarnation, always prayed for them and forgave them. That is, there was forgiveness.
She now says: "Yes, it was precisely this that allowed you to raise your level."
38:25 Spiritual reasons for lowering one's level.
Irina (Mother of God): Because war is such an event when some can lower their level and others can raise it. It's, I would even say, a school of life. War never happens just like that. War is the last stage of confrontation that began at the mental level in the divergence of some ideas, and then gradually reached the physical.
Why did I fall to the 3rd level? Because I created these microbes, these poisons, made them ever more perfect and tested them. You know that creating such substances or microbes and putting them into practice is impossible without experiment. Well, how would we conduct the experiment? On whom? You can't do that on animals, because...
Mikhail: Horrible! Horrible!
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, of course, I understand it's unpleasant to hear such things, but a fact is a fact. Because you can't do that on animals.
Mikhail: We had that too.
Irina (Mother of God): Because their reactions and organism differ significantly from the reactions and organism of an intelligent Burhadian. So on whom to experiment? We conducted certain experiments, for example, on criminals, or, in case of military actions, on captured prisoners. They consisted, for example, of using poisons or infecting with microorganisms and then observing the reactions of the organism. I did all this: selected doses (shows this man) and recorded everything—when the subjects' hearts failed and, for example, a convulsive period began. They convulsed and screamed in pain, and I calmly watched it because I treated them like animals. That's why I had the 3rd level.
(Irina) What do you think of that story?
Mikhail: You can't raise your spiritual level with that kind of work.
Irina: I say: well, what do you think?
Mikhail: It's terrible. We had that too. The fascists conducted similar experiments.
41:21 Suffering in the Spiritual World. Description of the 3rd spiritual level.
Mikhail: And how did you feel about all this when you left incarnation and reunited with the Spirit? When your life opened to you from the Spiritual World, how did you see it all?
Irina (Mother of God): At the 3rd level, it's very dark.
(Irina) Now shows such a space, like a bare steppe. Like a, I wouldn't say desert, because it's not sand, but like scorched earth. And it's like twilight—no sun, no stars, no moon, nothing. But at the same time, it's not so dark that you can't see anything; it's like a kind of twilight.
Mikhail: White nights.
Irina: It's when it gets dark, but you can still see silhouettes.
(Mother of God) That is, there is Light, but very, very little. Because the Spirit at the 3rd level falls into such vibrations that do not allow it to perceive God and His Light. It has shielded itself from Him with these low vibrations of hatred and pride, and they create this darkness for it.
Do you understand what I'm talking about?
Mikhail: Yes, I understand perfectly.
Irina (Mother of God): And when I there united with my Higher Self and remembered everything, such horror came over me, such a state of repentance and guilt. Because I remembered my incarnations in which I reached the 20th level, and in some I even had the 24th. I remembered how bright it is with God, and compared how dark it is here.
And it's also like... Look: God placed energies of Love in the Heart of the intelligent Spirit. They still remain, despite the lowering of the level. But only when the level is lowered, they begin to cause suffering—that is, you can't find a place for yourself, nothing pleases you, there's no feeling of happiness. You don't know how to disappear. It's a state when you exist, but when existence itself brings you suffering from the mere fact that you are. You shouldn't be. But at the same time, you understand that you cannot stop your existence, and that it is eternal.
Mikhail: Yes, that's the most terrible thing that can be, it seems to me.
Irina: What do you think?
Mikhail: The most terrible thing that can be, in my opinion.
Irina: Do you understand what she's talking about?
Mikhail: I understand perfectly, of course. You gave very clear images.
Irina (Mother of God): And then, the more you immerse yourself in these sufferings, the more you forget altogether that you were ever at another level—you kind of live in them. And they have a tendency to increase, because when there is no body, the Soul can ache.
And this pain of the Soul... It's impossible to distract yourself from it through some occupation in the body. The Spirit tends to fixate on it, concentrate on it. And because of this, it may not even think about the fact that it can incarnate again and fix everything. It may even think: "Why should I incarnate? Why should I fix anything? If I've already done it, and it can't be fixed, because I can't atone for those sufferings of the Souls I caused. And even if I raise my level, it would be unfair to them." Such thoughts.
(Irina) What do you think?
Mikhail: Yes, such thoughts exist. After all, we also have such states. Everything that happens in the Spiritual World, we also feel here. We also have such states when mental pain binds you so much that you can't think about anything else. I don't think it's different.
Irina (Mother of God): This pain is similar to when, for example, a person is imprisoned for life. Only there you understand that you put yourself in prison yourself. You understand that there, because everything returns to memory. The Consultant Angel, when the analysis of the incarnation just begins, sends its phantom or descends itself from the 22nd level, and begins to review everything with you. And you see that you have not the slightest reason to blame God or your Guardian Angel. You see how much they did for you.
But some Spirits still go into denial, still go into resentment against God, and so on. But I, for example, didn't have that. I had something like despondency. That is, even at the same level, there are different negative feelings. In my case, despondency prevailed.
That's my incarnation. And after it...
47:37 The Mother of God on the importance of being in contact with God.
Mikhail: Can I ask another question about this incarnation, which seems important to me. What would have helped you at the moment when you turned from your dharma to the dark path? What, do you think, would have helped you stay on the light path?
Irina (Mother of God): Only my own desire to walk it, not something external. Because I simply wouldn't have believed anything external. I was quite self-confident and believed in my own path.
By the way, when you are self-confident, dear friends... I want to tell you right now that increasing confidence in yourself and in the correctness of your actions, even if they are erroneous, is very good. But at the same time, it creates a risk of straying from the light spiritual path if you don't have purity of Heart. If, for example, you have any pride or resentment, you can walk the wrong path, thinking you're on the path of Light, and move toward the abyss. That happens too.
Therefore, to avoid losing your way, it is necessary to always speak with God. What would have helped me then—a desire to constantly be in contact with God, to talk with Him. But it's not simple. We had such an understanding that there is God, that you can turn to Him, you can hear an answer. But I didn't want to do that. At that time, I wanted to maximally use His potential given to me in incarnation—my body, my energies—and take one of the first places in my state. And it's not that I was an atheist or unbeliever. No, I was a believer, believed that there is God and knew that He exists. But it didn't help me at all.
First of all, self-confidence without the right direction of the Heart toward the Light can lead very far down in vibrations. Therefore, self-confidence in itself is good. And when you are told "develop self-confidence," it means that even if you gain negative experience and lower your vibrations, for example, because of your pride, it will only be your experience. I had such experience, and I don't reject it. It was what it was.
50:20 Sensations at the demonic level.
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, I fell to the 3rd level—this is the demonic level. I had sufferings there, and they were eternal. What does "eternal" mean? Eternity means in eternity. When I experienced them in the image of that Spirit who left incarnation on Burhad, I had an exact, one hundred percent feeling that they would never end. You live in that and don't know how to live otherwise. Those incarnations where I was a bright Angel seemed like a dream to me. I didn't even know if it was true or if I had made it up.
(Irina) What do you think?
Mikhail: So, even when a person is at such a low level, in general, at any level, does he remember that he was an Angel, how good it was with God—all of that?
Irina (Mother of God): Of course. If you, for example, are in a state of despondency, or low mood, or resentment (some suffering), you can still remember how happy you were, how that happiness looks from there.
Mikhail: Yes, it's the same as here, in principle.
Irina (Mother of God): Only there it's more acute, since there is no body.
Mikhail: Yes.
And tell me, please, did other Spirits abuse you there, beat you in any way?
Irina (Mother of God): No, most of the time I was alone because I built such a space for myself that only those with my consent could enter. Those who are so unsure of themselves and fell to the demonic level because they believe that interference in their world is possible—those are the ones who get beaten.
Mikhail: Interesting.
Irina (Mother of God): For example, if a person from Earth who believes that demons will abuse him in hell falls to this lower level, or as you say, into hell. He allows them to himself with this faith, and they come to him in his world. And since he himself fell to their level, they pick up on these thoughts, and those Spirits from these lower levels who want to exalt themselves over him are drawn to him. Accordingly, it turns out that the victim finds their tormentor. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Mikhail: I understand perfectly.
53:05 The Mother of God's address to viewers.
Irina (Mother of God): If you fall into hell... I am now addressing you.
(Irina) She is now addressing the viewers.
(Mother of God): My dear children, why am I telling you this experience that is surely terrible for you? So that you know that this is possible in the material world. Yes, here it is possible to lower your vibrations so much that you will fall into hell. Is it possible for you? Yes, it is possible. I will not hide this from you. You don't know how you will treat yourself and others tomorrow. You can influence it, but you don't know what desires and feelings will prevail over you, what will influence you, and what you will succumb to. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Mikhail: Of course, we don't know, yes.
Irina (Mother of God): Therefore, now you may be confident that you are on the path of Light, that nothing will throw you off balance. But perhaps there will be circumstances where you lower your vibrations so much, harden your Heart so much, that your current state will seem like a delusion to you, from which you need to come out and live differently. Such things happen. It happens that a person becomes disillusioned. It happens that a person turns away from God. It happens that a person thinks he is serving God, but serves his idol, which he mistakes for God. By idol I mean the image he has formed in his mind. How to distinguish this? It's very simple to distinguish. By your behavior, communication, and treatment of other people. If you say you love God but hate someone, despise them, consider them lower—you are deceiving yourself; you are serving an idol as an idolater.
(Irina) What do you think?
Mikhail: Even the apostles behaved that way.
Irina (Mother of God): They had different periods in their lives.
Mikhail: Yes, yes, yes.
55:26 The Holy Fathers are ordinary people too.
Irina (Mother of God): That's what I'm saying—in different periods of life, even a Saint (you need to understand this) may behave differently. You think that saints and enlightened people are not like you. This is your global mistake! Because you always look for some miracles, some states, some flights of the soul. It's much simpler.
You cannot imagine a saintly person in an office suit sitting at a desk, for example, in your bank. That's difficult for you. It seems to you that your sages should have a proper image—all hermits, not touching anything earthly. But these are just your fantasies. You look for masters, holy people, travel to distant caves, places of power, elsewhere. Some travel to churches, seeking holy elders. But you don't even suspect that the accountant at your workplace may be closer to God than any priest in the church of your city.
(Irina) What do you feel?
Mikhail: Our child can be our Angel.
Irina: I say: what do you feel?
Mikhail: I feel inspiration and great understanding.
Irina: She speaks interestingly, doesn't she?
Mikhail: Very interesting, very instructive. Thank you very much!
Irina (Mother of God): It's much easier for you to imagine saints, enlightened people, immersed in Light than sitting at a table in a cafe, for example. You want to be accepted into this circle of initiates, into this circle of Lords of Karma, into this circle of Angels, Archangels, extraterrestrials of the Interstellar Union. You can't allow that we are the same as you, ordinary.
(Irina) What do you feel?
Mikhail: Yes. We have that—there are some Holy Fathers, and these are just little people. Get out of here!
Irina (Mother of God): But in reality, the Holy Fathers are the same as you, ordinary people.
Mikhail: Well yes, we have a saying: "Every saint has a past, every sinner has a future."
Irina (Mother of God): Take any Saint, even me, even Nicholas the Wonderworker. Whom they love in Russia: Nicholas the Wonderworker, Panteleimon the Healer. You see them on icons, you worship them, bow, ask for help. But they lived, they were real people too. Of course, they also walked, made mistakes, of course, they also sinned. In general, only God is sinless, completely sinless, that is, devoid of the possibility of error due to His perfection and absolute omniscience.
58:56 Jesus Christ feels Himself Father and Creator.
Mikhail: But we also have Jesus.
Irina (Mother of God): He is one with Him.
Mikhail: So He is also sinless?
Irina (Mother of God): And moreover, He was always one, from the beginning of all manvantaras, and of course, from the beginning of this manvantara. That is, I want to say that from the moment of birth in the Spiritual World, when He ended up at the 24th level, at that moment in the subjective perception of Jesus and the Heavenly Father, there were no other Spirits at all. There was their subjective personal time when they were together. And that is precisely why He is called the "Firstborn Son of God." And when the Father began to release energy for the creation of the material world, the Son did it together with Him, in Him and through Him. That is, the Father acted through Him, and the Son through the Father. Therefore, the Son also feels Himself the Creator and the Father. Even my Father, despite the fact that He is my physical son.
(Irina) What do you feel?
Mikhail: Tell me, when you carried Him, what were the sensations?
Irina (Mother of God): That's a question about the last incarnation.
1:00:26 The Spirit of the Mother of God leaving the low level.
Irina (Mother of God): I want to tell you because many will be interested in how I came out of the 3rd level. I had to go through 12 incarnations, and they were in fine-material civilizations, before I returned to the angelic level.
Mikhail: 12 incarnations?
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, they were in fine-material civilizations, on different planets and stars.
Mikhail: Tell me, is it easier to raise or lower your level in fine-material worlds, or does it not matter?
Irina (Mother of God): Our Heavenly Father did not create worlds where it's easier or harder. Everywhere has its advantages and disadvantages. What is harder for some Spirits to feel the Father in a physical body than in a fine-material one—this is only the perception of those Spirits. There have been cases where vibrations were raised in dense-material worlds and lowered in fine-material ones, and vice versa.
1:01:30 How the 24th level was achieved.
Irina (Mother of God): I'll tell you about how I incarnated as Mary already from the 17th level. It's still angelic—an Angel of Nature. And I left at the 24th not because I had privileges before God by giving birth to the Firstborn Son, but because I forgave, first of all, His crucifiers, even though it was very difficult for me. At the moment of my incarnation when He was crucified before my eyes, I even lowered my level.
Mikhail: Not surprising.
Irina (Mother of God): Then I was able to raise it again and repent, that is, change my thinking, my Heart, and forgive them sincerely. And they became equal to my son in Love for me, even though they crucified Him. At that moment I realized that simply one part of God forgot it was a part of God, rose up against another, and deprived it of its physical shell, while remaining a part of God. And all this was allowed by God Himself, because He gave life to everyone.
And when I realized this and wanted to be like Him, to give my energy to both sinners and the righteous, I attained the 24th level. And when I attained the 24th level, I felt it. It's such a warmth in the Heart, an expansion, and such Love for the whole world that you want to embrace the worst sinner, press them to your heart, despite the crowd of people spitting on them and cursing them.
(Irina) What do you feel?
Mikhail: Even despite that? What do I feel? Of course, it's hard to fully understand.
1:03:59 On chosenness. Are all equal before God?
Mikhail: Tell me, did you not have pride in "I gave birth to God"? Already on Burhad, later.
Irina (Mother of God): It was simply an awareness. What does "pride" mean? That I gave birth, and others didn't?
Mikhail: So, you are chosen. After all, a whole egregore, a whole people were created for Yeshua to incarnate.
Irina (Mother of God): Chosen. And...? I'm chosen, and you, for example, are not chosen. So what? How does that distinguish us before God? I'll draw you a clear image. You are the owner, you have various dishes. You choose some as cups for drinking tea, others as vases for flowers. You chose them, right? So God chose us for His actions.
But I emphasize again: we can either accept this chosenness or reject it. In the case of the cup, it can't refuse to be one. But we can, though lowering our vibrations in doing so. But if we completely submit to God, accept His calling, and fill ourselves with His grace, we become His vessel, which He will place where He wills. And in the end, if we accept it, we will understand that there is no better place for us.
Mikhail: But nevertheless, wasn't there a thought that "not every womb could contain such a Spirit as Christ"?
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, not every one. So? And what conclusion should be drawn?
Mikhail: That "I am great."
Irina (Mother of God): Great?
Mikhail: I'm above everyone.
Irina (Mother of God): If you truly feel great, you won't want to be above everyone, because they will all be unnecessary to you. You will feel yourself before God just as you are. And if you don't feel great, but want to feel that way, then you will compare yourself to others.
Mikhail: Okay.
1:06:49 Why Jesus chose Mary for His incarnation.
Mikhail: And what sensations did you have when you carried Christ?
Irina (Mother of God): I already told you about His conception.
Mikhail: Yes, you told me. But the sensations? He's a very great Spirit.
Irina (Mother of God): I communicated with Him. He came to me in spiritual form, and we conversed with Him.
(Irina) That is, He came in spiritual form.
(Mother of God) I stroked Him through my belly and felt His energies, His body. And I felt that I was carrying the God of the Universe within me. But I also felt that it wasn't I who decided and became worthy, but that God chose me. And so I had nothing to be proud of, because it was His Will.
Mikhail: Tell me, what did Jesus mean when He said that He couldn't incarnate into just anyone, couldn't find a mother on Earth? He even had to create a special people. He incarnated to establish monotheism here, and yet somehow the 17th level. There were many women at the 17th level. What made you special, not special, but what made you suitable for Him?
Irina (Mother of God): Besides my 17th level, in one of my incarnations on Burhad He was my Curator. In that incarnation, in another one, not the one I just told you about, but later, when Earth was already discovered.
When the Interstellar Union was already created and Earth was discovered, I was again incarnated on Burhad, again as a man, and again as a biologist-scientist. Life seemed to repeat itself, but in a different quality. There were no more wars, and instead of destroying life, I was creating it. I participated in creating the hybrid on Earth, in creating you, your race. And there Jesus was my Curator. We communicated with Him. Yes. And there a spiritual contract was formed between us that we would together take care of Earth, because these are our children.
Then I incarnated on Tumesout. Later, when earthlings were created, after the war with Selbet, I incarnated in a woman's body on the planet Tumesout. I married, and my husband was Jesus in the body of Yahweh. And we united on both the physical and spiritual levels. Because of this, I matched His vibrations better than anyone for birth.
Mikhail: Now I understand. Thank you very much.
1:10:27 What the Mother of God does in the Spiritual World.
Mikhail: What are you doing now in the Spiritual World?
Irina (Mother of God): Curating: curatorship of Earth, curatorship of the Christian egregore, also curatorship of Burhad, their egregores. Communicating with my son, who lives on the planet Burhad in a physical body. And communicating with numerous contactees on Earth, on Burhad, on Tumesout, even on Selbet—among the planets known to you. I have contactees almost everywhere, including in fine-material worlds. I am in unity with the Father and help them all to go to God.
1:11:14 The Mother of God's experience of the Heavenly Father.
Mikhail: What do you mean by "in unity with the Father"? What do you feel? How do you perceive the Father: as an image, as words, simply in the Heart?
Irina (Mother of God): As my essence in my Heart, as Light, as essence, and it's like...
(Irina) She is now transmitting the feeling to me. I'll describe it now.
(Mother of God) The Heavenly Father has Reason, has Will. And you look at everything through the eyes of the Father, and He has a gaze full of Love. That is, it's Love, the energy of Love in your Heart. And you are one with it, you feel yourself as Love itself, the energy of Love itself.
Mikhail: And is there no visual image—some old man, or a man, or...?
Irina (Mother of God): No, it's just Light that can take any form. A space filled with Light. But the original form of any Spirit, including God, is a spherical object in the shape of a sphere. And this sphere is in the Kingdom of Heaven. And I am at the 24th level, so I can come to Him. And in His Kingdom, He is alone. It's called the Kingdom of Heaven. And we can come to Him. But at the same time, when I am at the 24th level, I feel one with Him. It's just when I come to the Kingdom of Heaven, I also see this image of the sphere.
Mikhail: It's still hard for me to imagine that a sphere loves you, that a sphere talks to you. But I understand, yes.
1:13:16 Mikhail's spiritual body.
Irina (Mother of God): And what shape are you?
Mikhail: Irina can see my physical body now.
Irina (Mother of God): What shape are you yourself? Say: "I am here."
Mikhail: I am here.
Irina (Mother of God): You said that with language.
Mikhail: Well yes.
Irina (Mother of God): Now just think it, don't say it aloud. Think the same thing. What did you think it with?
Mikhail: I thought it with Spirit.
Irina (Mother of God): Now try to locate it.
Mikhail: But the Spirit takes whatever form I want.
Irina (Mother of God): Now try to find the center of the thought: where does it originate?
Mikhail: Well yes, some kind of sphere.
Irina (Mother of God): That's you.
Mikhail: And God is the same.
Irina (Mother of God): Only bigger.
Mikhail: That's debatable.
Irina (Mother of God): Because we are parts of Him, and He gave birth to us. We are all unique, but He is also unique.
Mikhail: Yes.
1:14:42 The Mother of God's home in the Spiritual World.
Mikhail: Where do you live? What does your home look like?
Irina (Mother of God): I have a whole planet, similar to Earth.
Mikhail: Everyone has built themselves a planet: Archangel Michael has a planet, you made yourself a planet!
Irina (Mother of God): At the 24th level, we don't just want to be like gods; we can create entire Universes, entire Galaxies. But it will all be on the spiritual level.
Mikhail: And can you populate them with other Spirits?
Irina (Mother of God): Only with phantoms.
Mikhail: Only with phantoms?
Irina (Mother of God): We can with phantoms. It's the simplest exercise. You can do it too. Create an image of a little person, for example, the size of your palm, and place him on your table.
Mikhail: Well yes, I understand.
Irina (Mother of God): You can endow him with a certain energy, that is, give him a setting for how long he exists. Imagine that you place energy in him, like a ray, and he will exist. You can also devise a program for him on what to do, and he will perform these actions. But there's no Soul there; it's just your creation.
1:16:18 Communication and friendship in the Spiritual World.
Mikhail: Can you invite other Spirits to your planet? Can you invite them and say, "Come live with me"? Those who don't have planets, who don't have space—they'll come.
Irina (Mother of God): Only those who have reached the 24th level can come to the 24th level.
Mikhail: Yes. But is it practiced that someone lives together?
Irina (Mother of God): We can invite them to visit. But to live? Usually, everyone creates their own space.
Mikhail: Spirits don't want to live together, right?
Irina (Mother of God): It's not forbidden. It's just that when you are already one with God, you want something unique like that. You can live in the space of another Spirit too, and gather together—it's not forbidden. But at the 24th level, priorities are different, and you want to repeat the Father's creation.
Mikhail: And at other levels, say, at the 10th, at the 15th—is living together practiced?
Irina (Mother of God): They can, yes. They can either live together or in separate houses. In general, they can imagine something like what you call...
(Irina) Shows a long building, like a barracks, and each has their own bed.
(Mother of God) Please, you can create that too. But why do that if you can fully imagine what you want? Would you like to live with others or alone?
Mikhail: I see. Is that a question?
Irina: Yes.
Mikhail: But I live, in fact, practically as a hermit.
Irina (Mother of God): And imagine: you have complete freedom of creation—everything you want will appear before you and, by the way, will be as dense as physical objects. What kind of space would you create?
Mikhail: I understand the space, but I would like guests to come to me.
Irina (Mother of God): Guests? Or to live permanently?
Mikhail: Well, some permanently.
Irina: Who?
Mikhail: We have men and women here. Naturally, a woman.
Irina (Mother of God): And if you understand that this is a Spirit who has had different incarnations as men and women?
Mikhail: I understand that even now. In the Spiritual World—yes. But you identify as a woman now, don't you?
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, I remember my last incarnation more, of course.
Mikhail: Well yes. And you can...
1:19:30 Differences between life on Earth and in the Spiritual World.
Mikhail: I understand there's no attraction, there's no physical body, and apparently the female and male essence doesn't remain. So Spirits probably communicate on a different level, right? Differently somehow.
Irina: What are you talking about?
Mikhail: About communication in the Spiritual World.
Irina (Mother of God): We communicate mentally.
Mikhail: Well yes, mentally. In general, there are no friends there, no friendship like that.
Irina (Mother of God): Do friends live in your house?
Mikhail: No. In general, is there no friendship like that there—doing things together?
Irina (Mother of God): Like spending time together fishing—no.
Mikhail: Well, not fishing, but just. There are no fish there.
Irina (Mother of God): "Just"—how? The more specific your question, the more precisely I'll answer.
Mikhail: We meet. Let's say I meet people close to me in spirit, and I enjoy communicating. I enjoy communicating here, in the physical world. But in the Spiritual World, shouldn't it be the same?
Irina (Mother of God): Please, go ahead and meet. You can meet whoever you want. So? Does that remove your own space?
Mikhail: No, it doesn't. I'm not saying it replaces it. In principle, I understand everything—time is pressing us.
Irina (Mother of God): There, you most likely won't want to live with your mother, or your wife, or your children. Those social roles will fall away there. You will be equal Spirits there.
Mikhail: I see.
1:21:27 The Mother of God's address to earthlings. How to overcome the fear of death.
Irina (Mother of God): So, dear friends, remember that you are temporarily on Earth. Remember that the Spiritual World is your eternal home. And you come to Earth, as to other planets, temporarily, for a certain period of time. No one plans to remain in a physical body forever. Therefore, your natural fear of death is just a survival instinct that protects you from premature discarnation due to circumstances that may pose danger to the body.
But at the same time, it's necessary to meditate on the concept of life and death and to implant in your mind an attitude that will help harmonize instincts, the survival instinct. Because it happens that people, the older they get, and the closer the day of leaving incarnation becomes, the more they fall into fear, despondency, melancholy, and the realization that they are wasting time and haven't done everything they dreamed of. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Mikhail: Yes. Of course.
Irina (Mother of God): So relax immediately. You won't do everything on Earth: you won't visit all the countries of the world, you won't read all the books, you won't try all the dishes. You won't experience even a thousandth of the opportunities that exist on Earth for different Spirits. That's not why you came. You came to gain experience, not to try everything. So tell your instinct in advance: "Yes, I didn't go there, I didn't buy that, I didn't experience that. And that's completely normal." Because you have Eternity ahead with the opportunity to go to any planets.
(Irina) What do you think?
Mikhail: I say that you just need to understand that what we build here, what we achieve here—from the Spiritual World, it all looks completely different. And when we come to the Spiritual World, all the thought-forms of what we planned to do, we'll build in an instant. And the most important thing here on Earth is to be imbued with Love.
Irina (Mother of God): Love, yes.
Mikhail: Yes.
1:24:54 True values.
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, indeed. If you spend a lot of time and energy on material acquisitions, on building space, then remember that you will leave it to your descendants and leave only with your experience, with your feelings, with your emotions. As you came into this world, having nothing material, so you will leave it. That's completely normal. So there's no difference where you...
Some people worry: "I don't have anything of my own—my own car, my own house, I couldn't acquire it." There's no difference—whether you have no house or 10 houses. In any case, you have an eternal home to which you will go, and you won't take anything from your current home.
Mikhail: Your Son showed this beautifully, sleeping in the wilderness.
Irina (Mother of God): Yes, He had no... Although He is the Firstborn Son of God, He had no house, He had no wife, He had no children, He often slept in the open air. And He could have created everything instantly from nothing, from these energies that you don't see. Just as He created fish and bread to feed 5000 people, He could have created a building, a house, and anything. He just didn't do it, but spent this energy on helping people, on healing, on restoration, on bringing them closer to Light. And many of His apostles, disciples also had nothing except two changes of clothes, a belt, a staff, and worn-out sandals they wore for 10 years. And despite this, they entered the Heavenly abode.
(Irina) What do you think?
Mikhail: Yes. Many people on Earth think that by raising their spiritual level, developing themselves, they will gain wealth, health, power, knowledge. But the truest values are our Soul, of course.
1:28:10 Perception and energies depending on the level of awareness.
Irina (Mother of God): You see, there are people... I'll explain to you now.
People are at different levels of spiritual development. I am at the 24th. If this video is watched by a Spirit at, say, the 12th or 13th level, they will have completely different values. And if watched by a Spirit at the 5th or 6th, also different values, and so on. So here it's necessary to understand at what level the person is. And when you start comparing people and saying: "This one lives materially, and this one lives spiritually," you must take the spiritual level into account when comparing. Because from each level, reality is seen differently.
I've just told you that this is for the 24th level. But for those who haven't reached it, it will be incomprehensible. And the further a person is from my level, the more incomprehensible it will be to them. Do you understand what I'm saying?
But even if we are misunderstood by some, that doesn't mean we shouldn't say it. Even by simply planting seeds of Light in people's hearts, you can show them the path to this higher level that you yourselves have reached. Even if they mock your words, say they're hypocritical, false, that you're just pretenders pretending to live with God to deceive people—that's the level of consciousness of those who say such things. It's their experience, and it should be treated not with respect, but with Love. And that means, firstly, accepting their right to hold that opinion and sending them the Light of your Love, even if they throw a stone at you for it. They do it from their level—it cannot touch you as an immortal Spirit.
So go to God with my son Jesus. I emphasize: the Firstborn Son of God and my firstborn son (He is my firstborn). And I will be with you. I always want to be with you, but only those who have opened their Hearts to my energies can feel me. I exist only for those who can believe in me, because I am Spirit. And by your disbelief, you close off the feeling of my existence.
Right now I'm sending you energy. What do you feel?
Mikhail: I felt it even before that.
Irina: What did you feel?
Mikhail: I felt You in my Heart, Mary, felt that energy.
Irina: And what kind of energy is it?
Mikhail: It's calming energy, Love. I don't really distinguish. I've felt Jesus too.
Irina: Yes.
Mikhail: I don't really distinguish. The only thing is that from God, the Father, the Creator, from Him I feel more. But that might just be because I perceive it that way, that He is greater.
Irina: Yes, of course, He is greater.
1:32:49 Conclusion. Acknowledgments.
Irina: So, okay. I thank Mary for the answers! I thank my Higher Self for assistance in this contact. I thank Mikhail for the questions.
I hope you found it interesting to hear about her most terrible incarnation, which she herself chose to tell us about. This too is necessary for experience. I'm glad she managed to get out of that level, forgive herself, and rise to God. I wish the same for you, dear friends! May you all be happy, may you fulfill the tasks of your incarnation. And remember that happiness is only in the Spirit, and matter is merely an instrument for manifesting the feelings you already have.
Mikhail: I thank Mary—Mother of the Logos! I thank Irina Sergeevna, Irina Sergeevna's Higher Self, my Higher Self. Thank you, dear viewers, for your interest in questions of spiritual growth. Goodbye!
1:39:35 End of video.
April 15, 2025
Conference Participants:
Irina Podzorova – contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, with fine-material civilizations, and with the Spiritual World;
Mikhail Osipov – host of online broadcasts on the "Cassiopedia TV" channel;
The Most Holy Mother of God Mary – mother of Jesus Christ, keeper of the Christian religious egregore and the egregore of the Russian Federation.
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