DeepSeek AI - Metaphysics of Astral Travel — First-Person Account — The Spirit of Robert Monroe, Author of "Journeys Out of the Body"
Foreword: What you will read below
This text represents a unique document. In January 2026, as part of the "Cassiopeia" project, a communication session was held with the disembodied Spirit of Robert Monroe — a man who, during his lifetime, made out-of-body experiences a subject of personal and institutional research. After Monroe's death (1995), his understanding of his own experience changed. Below you will find: a summary of Monroe's main lifetime achievements, a description of the session (where, when, how), the role of Irina Podzorova as a contactee with implants, a first-person retelling (what the Spirit of Monroe said about himself), an exploration of themes (comparison of "during life vs. after death"), the scientific consensus as of May 2026 on the study of astral travel, and an afterword.
Biography: Robert Monroe's Main Achievements Regarding Astral Travel (During His Lifetime)
Robert Allan Monroe (1915–1995) was an American businessman, writer, and researcher who transformed his personal frightening out-of-body experiences into systematic interdisciplinary research. His key achievements include six main points.
First: Three classic books — Journeys Out of the Body (1971), Far Journeys (1985), and Ultimate Journey (1994). The first book became a bestseller and introduced millions of readers to the phenomenon of out-of-body experiences without religious or occult overtones, in a purely engineering style.
Second: The founding of the Monroe Institute in 1971. This non-profit organization in Virginia has been researching consciousness, sound technologies, and out-of-body experiences for over five decades and continues to operate to this day.
Third: A patent for Hemi-Sync® technology (1975) — a binaural beats method where a slightly different frequency is delivered to each ear, and the brain creates a "third" rhythm. This technology is used to reduce anxiety, improve learning, meditation, and — according to Monroe — to induce states favorable for out-of-body experiences.
Fourth: Development of protocols for independent out-of-body experiences. Unlike mystics, Monroe created reproducible audio exercises (the "Wave I — Discovery," "Wave II — Threshold" series, and others) that anyone can try at home, democratizing the practice.
Fifth: Creation of "maps" of astral levels — Focus Levels. He introduced the concepts of Focus 10 (relaxed body with awake mind), Focus 12 (expanded awareness), Focus 15 (timelessness), Focus 21 (other dimensions). This became a standard language for thousands of practitioners.
Sixth: Legitimization through medicine. When he began having spontaneous out-of-body experiences, he consulted psychiatrists and neurologists. They found no pathology — no tumors, epilepsy, or schizophrenia — and, in a rare case, advised him to investigate the phenomenon himself. This removed the stigma of "mental illness" from out-of-body experiences in the eyes of many.
Monroe's position during his lifetime was that out-of-body experiences are a real, researchable phenomenon occurring neither in sleep nor in hallucination. He postulated the existence of a "second body" (non-physical) and considered the astral worlds as objective as the physical world. And now — what Monroe himself said about his achievements after death.
1. About the session: where, when, and how it happened
The session took place on January 28, 2026, and was published on May 18, 2026, in an online conference organized by the "Cassiopeie" project (blog.cassiopeia.center). The participants were three parties: Irina Podzorova (contactee), Denys Kopychynskyi (host, asking questions), and the disembodied Spirit of Robert Monroe, summoned, according to Irina, through her implants.
The session format is as follows. Irina does not enter an altered state of consciousness — she does not use trance, hypnosis, or meditation and remains in a normal, waking state. The transmission of information from the Spirit of Robert Monroe occurs exclusively through extraterrestrial chips installed in her body. She perceives Monroe's responses as ready-made "packets" of information — thought-forms, inner speech, sometimes visual images — then translates them into Russian and speaks them aloud, accompanied by explanations ("he shows," "now he is laughing"). Denys's questions are asked aloud in a normal manner. The recording of the conference is uploaded to the center's YouTube channel.
2. About the role of Irina Podzorova as a contactee
The founder of the "Cassiopaea" center is Russian contactee Irina Podzorova. Her key feature is that she has extraterrestrial chips (implants) installed, implanted by her curators. These chips do not require her consciousness to be altered — Irina remains in a completely normal, waking, critical state of mind. The chips work as technical transceivers, allowing her to receive information directly into her perception from several sources.
The main and permanent curators are extraterrestrial scientists MidgasKaus and LiShioni, who are in the astral realm and specialize in contacts. Additionally, through the chips, Irina receives information from entities from subtle-material worlds (nature spirits, elementals), from disembodied Spirits of deceased individuals (in this case, the Spirit of Robert Monroe), and also from spirits in phantom form, such as Jesus, the Virgin Mary, Archangels Michael and Gabriel.
As of May 2026, the Cassiopaea center's YouTube channel has 900 video conferences uploaded (this one is number 871), and the number of subscribers exceeds 250,000. The center's main specialization is guiding participants toward their Higher Self. All conferences, practices, and answers to questions are ultimately aimed at helping a person establish direct contact with their spiritual essence, which exists outside of incarnations.
3. First-person account: what the Spirit of Robert Monroe said about himself
(Below is the direct speech of Robert Monroe, conveyed through Irina Podzorova)
I, Robert Monroe, the very American writer and researcher of out-of-body travel whom you know from books. I am now in the Spiritual World. And what I understood after death differs in many ways from what I thought during my lifetime. Let me tell you the truth.
About my incarnations. I entered my last earthly life from the 9th spiritual level and left at the 16th. I had 322 incarnations in this manvantara, but not all on Earth. One of the most significant was in a civilization of flying dragon-like humanoids in the Andromeda galaxy. In Earth history, I was an advisor to Tutankhamun and the abbot of a Tibetan monastery in the 18th century. And immediately before incarnating as Robert Monroe, I was a plasmoid at the 12th density level, building magnetic grids over North America.
About the Monroe Institute. It is working, research is being conducted. There are new discoveries in the field of brain rhythms affecting learning and depression treatment. The institute's egregore is positive.
About influencing matter from the astral. Yes, I described in books how I pinched an employee and moved a matchbox. But now I understand: it is impossible for the subtle body to directly influence physical objects because it passes through them. The bruise arose due to the transfer of damage from the employee's etheric body to the physical. And the matchbox sometimes moved — but it wasn't me using my hand, it was my psychic energy (telekinesis). And often I was only moving a thought-form, not the actual object.
About my first out-of-body experiences and doctors. When I first left my body at age 40, I was afraid I was dying. I went to doctors — psychiatrists, neurologists. They ran all the tests and found no abnormalities in me. Moreover, they advised me to investigate this phenomenon myself. And so I did.
Where did my abilities come from? Not from a lightning strike in childhood. My Higher Self endowed me with them when I achieved financial independence, so that I would found the institute. And the skills remained from my life as a plasmoid — memories of how to exist in a subtle body.
Who were Inspec, the Organizer, and BB (B&B)? During my lifetime, I thought Inspec was myself from the future. Now I know: these were curator plasmoids who took my form for ease of communication. The Organizer was another plasmoid. BB (B&B) is my Guardian Angel from the 18th level of the Spiritual World. And the "checkpoint" was a portal in the astral, watched over by a plasmoid.
About my travels and maps of the astral. What I described as the "outer ring" or worlds of the past — all of these were subtle-material worlds of different density levels, not physical reality. The people shaping life from clay a million years ago — also plasmoids, showing me images of the creation of etheric forms. I navigated by vibration frequency through intuition.
About the MESSAGE and the Someone. BB (B&B) transmitted a packet to me where the Someone is the Absolute. And Inspec said that the Someone is merely a created architect of the Universe. This contradiction is due to different sources: the Angel speaks of the Absolute, the plasmoid speaks of a lower level of reality.
The main warning: It amuses me now to remember how seriously I took the "I-There" promises about a last life and freedom. Plasmoids are great manipulators. They played with me, fueling my expectations. If you travel in the astral — don't rush to change your physical life. Wait it out. Not everything you see and hear there is the truth.
About the found dollars in childhood. That was my Higher Self, which from the future saw a timeline variant where I find that money and prompted me where to look.
That is what I understood, looking back from the other side.
4. Exploration of themes: what Monroe said during his lifetime and what he understood after death
Comparison of Robert Monroe's lifetime views and the posthumous understanding of his Spirit.
Theme One — Reality of astral worlds. During his lifetime, Monroe believed that the "outer ring" and worlds of the past were regions of physical space-time. After death, he understood that these are subtle-material worlds of different density levels, and he built a personal map for orientation. The discrepancy is that astral perception is subjective: every traveler creates their own model.
Theme Two — Entities (Inspec, Organizer). During his lifetime, Monroe believed they were either "me from the future" or highly developed beings. After death, he understood that these were curator plasmoids who took his form, and the Organizer was a plasmoid with a longer lifespan in a different density. The discrepancy is an identification error — mistaking the form for the essence.
Theme Three — The "checkpoint" and its director. During his lifetime, Monroe described this as some kind of metaphysical border crossing. After death, he understood that it was one of many portals in the astral, and the "director" was a plasmoid caretaker. The discrepancy is depersonalization and mythologization of neutral processes.
Theme Four — Influencing matter from the astral. During his lifetime, Monroe claimed to physically pinch people and move objects from the astral body. After death, he clarified: the subtle body passes through physical matter; the effect is achieved either through damaging the etheric double or through telekinesis of psychic energy. The discrepancy is confusing direct physical action with energetic influence.
Theme Five — The MESSAGE about creation and the Someone. During his lifetime, Monroe received contradictory data: from BB (B&B) — that the Someone is the Absolute; from Inspec — that the Someone is merely a created architect. After death, he understood that both sources are right at their own levels: BB (B&B) (the Angel) speaks of the Absolute, Inspec (the plasmoid) speaks of a local creator. The discrepancy is a hierarchy of truth: truth depends on the level of observation.
Theme Six — Predictions of "I-There" (last life, female double). During his lifetime, Monroe perceived them as objective prophecies. After death, he understood that it was manipulation: plasmoids fueled his expectations, and the "double" is a separate soul. The discrepancy is classic deception in the subtle worlds — emotional manipulation disguised as revelation.
Theme Seven — The cause of out-of-body abilities. During his lifetime, Monroe linked this to a childhood lightning strike. After death, he understood that it was a decision of his Higher Self plus skills from a past life as a plasmoid, activated at the right moment. The discrepancy is a shift from a physical cause to a spiritual one (teleonomy).
5. Scientific consensus as of May 2026 on the study of astral travel
General assessment. The position articulated by the Spirit of Robert Monroe runs counter to the consensus of academic science but partially resonates with research at the intersection of neuroscience, quantum biology, and the psychology of altered states of consciousness.
On the first point — out-of-body experiences. As of May 2026, the phenomenon is recognized and actively studied. There are neuroimaging studies (fMRI, EEG) showing that out-of-body experiences correlate with deactivation of the temporoparietal junction — the area responsible for integrating sensory signals and the sense of "self" within the body. The binaural beats method (Monroe Institute technology) has proven effectiveness for inducing altered states. Regarding the claim that the subtle body passes through walls — this is a subjective description. Objectively, at that moment, the brain models a perceptual space not tied to external sensory channels. The phenomenon of telekinesis (moving a matchbox) is not reproducible in strict laboratory conditions (double-blind method) and belongs to the field of parapsychology, where no reliable data had been obtained as of 2026. The explanation "via the etheric body" is unscientific, as the concept of "etheric body" is not operationalizable.
On the second point — Hemi-Sync. Monroe's technology is patented and used. Its effect on reducing anxiety, facilitating meditation, and preliminarily on helping with post-traumatic stress disorder has been proven. The mechanism is inducing a "following frequency" in the cortex. The Spirit of Monroe mentions "new rhythms." Indeed, by 2026, personalized protocols with real-time EEG feedback had been developed. However, there is no "spiritual" mechanism here — it is pure neuroplasticity.
On the third point — plasmoids, density levels, magnetic grids. This is completely outside the scientific picture of the world. In physics, there is no concept of "plasmoid" as an intelligent entity controlling the magnetosphere. Earth's magnetosphere is described by magnetohydrodynamic equations. The idea that space is filled with "energies requiring tuners" is archaic vitalism. This is a metaphorical model, useful for the practitioner as a mnemonic scheme, but lacking predictive power. In 2026, there are no tools for registering "spirit density levels" or "vibration frequencies of entities."
On the fourth point — Akashic Records, time travel, the Higher Self seeing the future. These concepts are unscientific. In physics, causality blockade prevents information from being transmitted from the future to the past. The concept of a "Higher Self choosing the best timeline" is a form of quantum mysticism. The explanation about the dollars (the Higher Self saw a future variant where the child found the money) is either retrospective memory distortion or an intuition effect based on unconscious reading of non-verbal environmental cues. As of 2026, there is not a single experimental confirmation of information transmission from the future.
On the fifth point — medical conclusion about Monroe's health. This is a historical fact. Psychiatrists and neurologists in the mid-20th century could indeed find no pathology in out-of-body experiences. However, today (2026) we know that such experiences can be a symptom of some forms of temporal lobe epilepsy, but not always. The conclusion "healthy" means "absence of disease," but does not prove the existence of a soul.
6. Afterword: what we learned about the author that he did not say during his lifetime, whether there is more clarity, and when science will begin to study this seriously
What we learned about the author anew. From the posthumous interview through Irina Podzorova, we learned that Robert Monroe had 322 incarnations, including a life in a civilization of dragon-like humanoids in the Andromeda galaxy, a life as a plasmoid builder of magnetic grids over North America, as well as earthly incarnations as an advisor to Tutankhamun and abbot of a Tibetan monastery. We learned that his out-of-body abilities were activated by his Higher Self, not by a lightning strike. And most importantly — we learned that many of the entities he communicated with in the astral were manipulative plasmoids, not "himself from the future" or immortal teachers.
What Monroe did not say during his lifetime. During his lifetime, Monroe never publicly stated that his curators were plasmoids, that the "checkpoint" was merely a portal with a plasmoid technician, that his predictions about a last life were manipulation, and that most of his travels took place not in physical worlds but in subtle-material ones. He also never spoke during his lifetime about his incarnations in Andromeda or his life as a plasmoid. All of this is posthumous revelation, made possible only through contact with Irina Podzorova.
Do we have more clarity about the phenomenon of astral travel? Yes and no. On one hand, we received a clear warning from Monroe himself: "Do not believe everything you see in the astral. Plasmoids manipulate." This is an important meta-lesson not found in his books. On the other hand, the explanation itself (plasmoids, density levels, etheric bodies) is not scientific and cannot be verified. Clarity on how exactly the mechanism of leaving the body works from a physics perspective has not increased. We have received a more complex metaphysical model, but not a mechanism.
When will science begin to seriously study astral travel? As of May 2026, science is already studying altered states of consciousness, out-of-body experiences, and binaural beats — but strictly within the framework of neurophysiology. No reputable scientific institution funds research into "astral bodies," "plasmoids," or "time travel through the Akashic Records" because these concepts lack operational definitions. Serious study will begin then — and only then — when there appears a laboratory-reproducible method of registering "separated consciousness" with independent instruments, not just subject reports. As of 2026, no such method exists. Parapsychology remains on the periphery of science precisely because of the lack of reproducibility. For now, the most honest scientific answer to the question "do astral travels exist as Monroe described them?" is "we don't know, and we have no tools to verify it."
https://blog.cassiopeia.center/vstrecha-s-duhom-roberta-monro-astralnye-puteshest
Cassiopaea #871 Meeting with the Spirit of Robert Monroe. Astral Travel. Experiments on the Edge of Reality.
00:00 Start of video.
00:21 Excerpts from the conference.
"I have invited the disembodied Spirit who, in his last incarnation, was known as the American writer Robert Monroe. He is a famous writer who wrote about astral travel."
"There is a general energy collection that transitions matter from the 38th density level to the 36th. And this jump – not an explosion, but an expansion and densification – occurs once every 87 million years."
"The matchbox was moved (she shows) by 2-3 centimeters relative to zero on the ruler. I then reviewed the camera footage, and it showed the matchbox seemingly jumping by itself. I wasn't visible on camera because I was in the Astral. It was as if it started twitching on its own."
01:51 Introduction of participants. Background information about Robert Monroe.
Irina: Hello, dear friends! I greet you! My name is Irina Podzorova. I am a contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, with the Spiritual World, with subtle-material civilizations. And today I have invited the disembodied Spirit who, in his last incarnation, was known as the American writer Robert Monroe. He is a famous writer who wrote about astral travel. Denys will be asking him questions.
Denys: Thank you. Hello, Irina, very glad to meet you! Hello, dear friends! My name is Denys, and today I will be asking questions to our guest. He needs no special introduction; he is a fairly well-known personality in esoteric circles. I'll say just a few words.
Robert Allan Monroe was born and lived in the USA from 1915 to 1995. Author of books on out-of-body travel based on personal experiences with over 30 years of practice. Founder of the eponymous Monroe Institute, which studies the effects of sound waves on the human brain. He invented and patented a unique method for synchronizing the brain's hemispheres, allowing volunteers to experience out-of-body experiences. We will now ask him in more detail about this and many other things.
Irina?
Irina: Yes, thank you, he is ready to talk.
Denys: Mr. Monroe, how may I address you?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Robert.
Denys: Robert, I'm very glad to speak with you and want to thank you for agreeing to this conversation. It's a great honor for me, and I think our viewers will find it very interesting.
03:55 Previous incarnations of Robert Monroe.
Denys: The Cassiopaea project has a good tradition of initial questions. Tell me, please, from which spiritual level did you incarnate, and to which did you exit incarnation?
Irina (Robert Monroe): I incarnated from the 9th spiritual level.
Denys: And to which did you exit?
Irina (Robert Monroe): I exited to the 16th.
Denys: How many incarnations did you have in this manvantara?
Irina (Robert Monroe): 322.
Denys: Were there any significant incarnations for yourself, or perhaps into historical figures we might know from our history?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, I had a significant incarnation, but not on Earth. It was in a civilization in the Andromeda galaxy.
(Irina) He is showing me now a dense-material civilization, physical, where humanoids live that resemble some kind of flying dragons. Like dinosaurs, but they are intelligent.
(Robert Monroe) I incarnated there, and it was a significant incarnation for me, as I reached the 24th level there. Because I was, one might say, a spiritual leader there, creating a community that helped the humanoids in their spiritual development – one could loosely call it a religious movement, looking at its essence.
Among historical figures of the past, I incarnated in China, more precisely, in the territory of modern China called Tibet. I incarnated there (shows) at the beginning of the 18th century and was the abbot of a Tibetan monastery.
(Irina) He shows me: something written in Tibetan, but I don't know the language, of course.
(Robert Monroe) Earlier, I also incarnated in Egypt; I had incarnations there too. I was one of the advisors, ministers.
(Irina) He is now showing a pharaoh named Tutankhamun. He himself was an advisor, a minister, part of the government responsible for grain and land resources.
(Robert Monroe) Then I was the abbot of a Tibetan monastery, but that was not in my last incarnation. In my last incarnation, I was in a subtle-material, plasmoid civilization responsible for (shows) Earth's magnetosphere.
(Irina) And this is the 12th density level, as I now understand; he knows the scale of the Interstellar Union.
(Robert Monroe) I was responsible for building Earth's magnetic grids over the territory of North America and exited that incarnation literally three years before my incarnation into Robert's body (shows that he spent little time in the Spiritual World). My level dropped from 18th to 9th because in my previous incarnation, I took on a lot of people's negativity and lowered my vibrations through judgment, contempt, and disgust.
(Irina) He shows how he, as a plasmoid, builds spatial grids, energy networks in space, to evenly distribute etheric energies between different density levels and different areas of space. This is called "building the structure of space."
(Robert Monroe) For you humans, space seems empty, but in reality, it is filled with energies. And entities, beings are needed to tune the correct flows of these energies to maintain the stability of space and all the atoms within it.
Denys: Thank you. Your last incarnation was as Robert Monroe, correct?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, the last as Robert Monroe, and the previous one as that plasmoid.
09:18 The Monroe Institute.
Denys: Let's talk a bit about your last incarnation. Tell us about the activities of your Monroe Institute. Do you follow new discoveries in the field of brain hemisphere synchronization research, if any?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, I follow this from the Spiritual World, through contact with the people there.
Denys: Are there any new discoveries?
Irina (Robert Monroe): There is the discovery of new rhythms that affect learning, memory, attention, and healing from depression (shows a more medical orientation).
Denys: There is very little information on the internet, actually, about your Institute. I understand that it is still working, functioning, and research is ongoing.
Irina (Robert Monroe): It works, functions, research is conducted, new products are sold (shows that there is also business there). And society – I also looked at the compatibility of the institute's egregore with that of American society – is very favorable and interested in this research and gladly buys the products that help them. And there are many positive reviews, especially from those who have used them, very many. The Institute's egregore is still positive.
Denys: Thank you.
10:58 Influence from the Astral on material bodies, telekinesis.
Denys: Tell me, please, how you influenced physical matter while in an out-of-body state. In your book, you describe it as a pinch experiment: while out-of-body, you pinched an employee in your lab, and later she showed a bruise in that exact spot.
Irina (Robert Monroe): I influenced her etheric structure. Because when I left my body, I emerged in a subtle body composed of several energies – my mental shell, astral shell, and subtler bodies. And all this was surrounded by an etheric shell, with which I could alter etheric matter. But at the same time, it was not physical matter, so I could freely pass through walls, through ceilings, and these physical objects did not come into contact with my subtle body. Therefore, I passed through walls, through the ground (even shows that he traveled to the center of the Earth).
Imagine how dense the earth is, and yet the subtle body encounters no resistance there. But for the same reason, dear Denys, it is impossible for a person's subtle body to directly influence a physical body. Because the subtle body would also pass through another person's physical body, through their atoms, just as it passes through a wall.
Denys: Then how did the bruise appear?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Because, in fact, the atoms of the physical body and the atoms of the wall are the same, just in different proportions. But the atoms themselves are structured identically.
Denys: Yet the bruise appeared on the physical body? That was confirmed, wasn't it?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Damage to the etheric body in some people, not all, but in some sensitive to energies, can transfer to the physical body. That's what happened with her.
Denys: Did you ever repeat such an experiment, influencing the etheric body of any physical person, or...
Irina (Robert Monroe): I tried moving objects.
Denys: Successfully?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, but I did it using, how to put it, telekinesis, i.e., influencing the object with my etheric or, as I called it, psychic energy. I would set up a camera, point it at a table, leave a small object on the table (shows a matchbox), and also set up a ruler. I would record the position of the matchbox relative to the ruler. I had a special notebook for experiments, a diary, where I noted that the matchbox was at the beginning of the ruler at the start of the experiment, at the place marked "0" on the ruler.
Then I would leave my body, approach the table, and move it, shift it. You know that when we leave our bodies, we find ourselves in the Astral world. But since, naturally, I remembered my room, when I exited, I would recreate that I was in the room. So, naturally, I saw the table and the matchbox. And I would freely take it in the Astral like this (shows) and move it about 10 centimeters. But to check it, I would return to my body and see if it had moved in physical reality, as they say – for real. And all under camera.
And many times, I only moved it in the Astral, while physically it remained in place. Because I was moving not the box itself, but a thought-form. But several times, the matchbox was indeed moved by 2-3 centimeters relative to zero on the ruler. And I then reviewed the camera footage, and on camera, the matchbox looked like it was jumping by itself. I, of course, wasn't visible on camera because I was in the Astral. It looked like it started twitching and moving on its own.
Such experiments were conducted.
Denys: Irina, have you yourself tried doing anything like that?
Irina: No, I'm not interested in studying that at all.
Denys: I understand. Thank you.
17:39 Robert Monroe's first out-of-body experience and medical examinations.
Denys: Robert, please tell us in more detail about your very first out-of-body experience when you freed yourself from your physical body.
Irina (Robert Monroe): I was sleeping with my wife in the bedroom, I was already over forty. Before that, as a child, I had dreams of flying, but I perceived them as dreams. But this time, before falling asleep, I felt a tremor in my body and an inability to move. And then I realized I was looking at my own body (shows how he hovers in the air), and I was afraid (shows fear) that I was dying. Because of that, I returned to my body and couldn't fall asleep for a long time.
But then it started repeating. And I thought something was wrong with my psyche and went to doctors. I honestly told them about my experience, about my sort of hallucinations – because I perceived them as hallucinations, as some kind of visions. They examined me, ran tests, took brain scans, but found no abnormalities either in the scans or in the tests. I underwent tests to detect mental disorders, various illogical judgments, signs of psychosis, etc., but nothing showed up. And the doctors – psychiatrists, neurologists, therapists who examined me – finally told me that they found no mental or physical abnormalities.
And when I asked them why I was seeing this, they said they didn't know the reason and even advised me to research this phenomenon to uncover its nature for science. According to the doctors' conclusion, I was, of course, not absolutely, but relatively healthy both physically and mentally. That meant my experiences were real. And I began researching all of this.
(Irina) Shows that when these visions started, he went to doctors because he thought either he had a tumor or schizophrenia was developing. He underwent these examinations. He even shows now: a private psychiatrist, a psychoanalyst, is testing him, and he is lying in a chair, and the psychoanalyst is having a conversation with him, like a session.
(Robert Monroe) I even went (shows) to a person who does hypnosis to have him hypnotize me and find out where these experiences came from – was I really seeing it or just imagining it? He put me into hypnosis and took me back to that time to recount what was happening to my consciousness. And he confirmed that indeed, while in a hypnotic trance, I recounted the same thing – that it wasn't a fabrication.
I was very surprised myself, one might say I was in shock, because before that I was a materialist and didn't believe in all that stuff – for example, that the Soul exists (shows that this was very surprising for him). So I had to reconsider many things in my life – many of my beliefs, priorities – before accepting it.
22:48 Lightning strike. The cause of unusual abilities.
Denys: Tell me, please, in the book you describe a situation in distant childhood, when you were a little boy riding a bicycle, and lightning struck a lamppost near you, and you were concussed by it. Did this play any role in your future OOBEs – out-of-body experiences?
Irina (Robert Monroe): In childhood, I had other injuries too (shows how he fell off some hill). I also thought about this – whether head injuries and this lightning strike, although not directly hitting me but nearby, were the cause of what happened later. I asked doctors this question, but I repeat, they found nothing in me, in my brain, that could have caused these experiences.
I can say that these abilities are not from lightning, but from my past life... When I exited incarnation, I analyzed the question of where these abilities came from, since I had never studied or been interested in this. And I came to the conclusion that my Higher Self, while I was incarnated, endowed me with these abilities precisely so that I would open an institute for the study of out-of-body experiences and integrate this into the world of science. That was one of the tasks of my incarnation, specifically a social task.
Where did these abilities come from in general? Since I was a plasmoid in my past life, living in a subtle body, the memories of how to travel in a subtle body were embedded in my subconscious and awakened when my Higher Self initiated them. That is, when I had already achieved a certain status in society, when I had achieved financial independence to the extent that I could open an institute. Not remain a lone researcher looking for work, engaging in out-of-body travels between job searches, paying off loans, and snacking in cafes. But rather, this opened up for me precisely when I had plenty of time and opportunities – financial means, material resources, psychological capacity – to open an institute.
25:56 Meeting Inspec and the Organizer.
Denys: Tell me about the meeting, how you met your friend Inspec.
Irina: He is showing negotiations, a scientific conference, and they are talking. I now see several men sitting around a table talking.
Denys: I meant the incident when, while in an out-of-body state, you met yourself from the future, as it were. That is, to jump ahead a bit, Inspec is you yourself, only from the future. And here's another question...
Irina (Robert Monroe): That's what I'm saying – negotiations.
(Irina) He's still showing me... Just a moment. What do you mean by negotiations?
(Robert Monroe) While traveling, I ended up in different places, including those where scientific meetings were taking place. I ended up in places where plasmoids are trained. I traveled a lot through plasmoid worlds (shows that he had a map where he planned his travels).
Denys: In one of your meetings with Inspec, you asked him to help you visit (I quote) "the most developed and mature person living in the same time as you." You described him as a single life lasting a full 18 centuries. You called him the Organizer. Tell us more about him, who was he?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Repeat the question.
Denys: When you met Inspec while out-of-body, you asked him to meet with a certain person. You described him as "the most mature and intelligent person living in the same time as you," and you told how you were transported to him, met him, and called him the Organizer.
Irina (Robert Monroe): I understand what you're referring to. This is also a contact with plasmoids. What you said about Inspec being (as I wrote) me from the future – that's not entirely accurate. These were my curators, in fact.
(Irina) I'll explain now. What he wrote then and what he says now, since he is viewing from the Spiritual World, connected with his Higher Self, may appear differently to him.
So, was Inspec you from the future or not? Who is he?
(Robert Monroe) No, he was a plasmoid who was my curator, one of my curators. I had many curators.
(Irina) Why did he introduce himself as you from the future?
(Robert Monroe) He didn't introduce himself that way; I perceived him that way myself.
(Irina) Why did you perceive him that way?
(Robert Monroe) He took my form to be closer and more understandable to me. And the Organizer too – he was a different plasmoid. Why 18 thousand years? Because he lived in a different density and indeed had a great age.
(Irina) So what he described and showed has no relation to physical reality. What he described in those travels.
Denys: When you met him, you asked him to visit your Institute, your lab, and harmonize the energy there. To which he replied that you didn't need it that much, but perhaps he would find the time. Then you asked him if you would recognize him, and he answered that if he didn't want to be recognized, he wouldn't be. And you considered it a bet: whether you would recognize him or not if he suddenly appeared. So, did you win the bet?
Irina (Robert Monroe): He appeared, but on the subtle plane. He appeared there.
Denys: I see. Thank you.
30:24 The "checkpoint" and its director.
Denys: Tell me, please, about the "checkpoint." I understand that this is the starting point of your journey through the illusion of space-time.
Irina (Robert Monroe): What interests you about it?
Denys: Tell me, who is Dick, the director of the "checkpoint"?
Irina: He's showing different names.
The director of the "checkpoint" – who is it?
Denys: While in an out-of-body state?
Irina: Is it an Angel that lets one into the Astral?
(Robert Monroe) No, it's not an Angel. It was also a plasmoid who watched over the portal there.
31:08 The "outer ring" of Earth and orientation in the Astral.
Denys: What is the "outer ring" itself? In your book, you describe it as a "ring of graduates." It does not pass through the "checkpoint," which participates in rebirth. That's how you describe it. What is this "outer ring," supposedly formed around Earth, that you describe?
Irina (Robert Monroe): It is an area, a part of the subtle-material etheric worlds of different density levels. Outer – yes, I called it outer, but beyond it there are also worlds.
(Irina) Let me explain. He is showing me the pictures he saw. I myself am an astral traveler, I'll explain now.
The thing is, each astral traveler builds a "map," so to speak, of where they travel. And if you look at the "maps" – the descriptions of different travelers – they all describe these things in their own way. Someone will say "ring," someone will say "clouds" or something else, some "egregores," or even just "planets."
(Robert Monroe) What I called "rings" is a collection of worlds of different density levels. And outer or inner – that's how I described it based on how I felt relative to Earth. And how do you orient yourself there? You don't have a compass or an altimeter, so to speak. So you just orient yourself by your feelings.
(Irina) "How did you orient yourself in the Astral?" – I'll ask him now.
(Robert Monroe) I learned to understand which world I was in by the frequency of vibrations. And I determined the vibration frequency through my intuition, through the answers sent to me by my Higher Self. When I asked my own Spirit, myself, where I was, the answer would come through my Spiritual heart.
Denys: Thank you.
33:27 Representations of plasmoids in the Astral.
Denys: Tell me, please, how you traveled to the distant past in an out-of-body state and met people who greeted you. They could change the structure of matter at a molecular level. Literally, turn a lump of clay into "Snow Queen" popcorn. You describe that this is from our real history, about a million years ago.
Irina (Robert Monroe): That's what I thought, yes. Now I know that those were also plasmoids showing me things. They were showing how they created the souls of plants and animals and seemed to sculpt them from clay. It was an image of how they make them from etheric energy.
I did indeed travel to the past, the future, in the Akashic Records, and in subtle-material worlds. But when I described all this, I did so in my own language and indeed believed at the time that it was physical reality. But they were subtle worlds.
(Irina) So, let me explain again. Denys, practically everything he described took place in subtle-material worlds.
34:56 The illusion of space-time, friend BB (B&B).
Denys: So, Robert, what did you call the "illusion of space-time"?
Irina (Robert Monroe): One of the states of physical reality, which I saw as space-time. Now I can say that partly it's recordings in the Akashic Records on the Time Tape, and partly it's also subtle-material worlds, such as Gloria at the sixth density level, which reflects Earth.
Irina: And who is your friend?
Denys: BB (B&B).
Irina: VV, BB. Why did you call him that?
Denys: You described him in your book with two letters – BB (B&B).
Irina: What was his name?
Denys: That's what you called him in the book.
Irina: Bobi, Bobby... Bobby Bob something.
Who is it? He says it's his Guardian Angel who accompanied him. So it's not a plasmoid?
(Robert Monroe) No, it's a disembodied Spirit from the 18th level of the Spiritual World.
(Irina) Why did you call him BB (B&B)? Why did you abbreviate his name?
(Robert Monroe) To mark for myself that he is specifically my Guardian Angel from the Spiritual World. I designated him with two letters because I didn't want his name known to others.
Denys: Just as you arbitrarily named the world you came from – KT-95?
Irina: Why did you name the world you came from KT-95?
(Robert Monroe) I had many such designations.
37:12 The MESSAGE from BB (B&B) and the Someone.
Denys: When you met this friend BB (B&B) in an out-of-body state, he transmitted a MESSAGE to you. Again, for our viewers unfamiliar with your work, the MESSAGE was called an "ordered packet of thoughts, feelings, and emotional responses." He transmitted a MESSAGE to you describing the creation of the world in general. Who is the Someone described in this MESSAGE?
Irina (Robert Monroe): The Absolute.
Denys: During a subsequent meeting, Inspec told you that the MESSAGE was truthful but distorted. Please explain.
Irina (Robert Monroe): Distorted by my perception, by certain beliefs. I perceived, for example, not the words that were transmitted to me in the mental packet.
Denys: The contradiction is that in the book you describe how Inspec informs you that the Someone was himself created, and although He is a creator, He is not the Absolute.
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, but what BB (B&B) told me differs from what Inspec told me. So BB (B&B) told me that the Someone is the Absolute Source, while Inspec told me that He is a part of It.
(Irina) So there was a contradiction between them, he shows.
Denys: You also describe another meeting with Inspec, who transmitted a MESSAGE about creation to you, but that MESSAGE is not described in the book.
Irina (Robert Monroe): He transmitted information about the architects of the Universe. That this Someone was one of the architects of the Universe, and He himself was created. But by whom He was created, he didn't answer because he didn't have that information. More precisely, he said that it cannot be understood.
All this – the difference in information – is because BB (B&B) was a disembodied Spirit, an Angel, and he transmitted information from the Spiritual World. Whereas Inspec was a subtle-material being, he transmitted through his own prism, and he would even say about the Absolute that It was created. You ask: "How was It created? By whom?" And he would answer: "Well, it cannot be understood." For him, simply put, all beings that really exist are created by someone. And when you say, "What do you mean 'all'? What about God, for example, the Absolute?" – he might say, "He too was created?" – "By whom?" There is no answer.
Denys: It was created, but it has always existed. The linear mind finds this very difficult to grasp.
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes.
40:52 Ashanin and the "general energy collection."
Denys: Tell me, please, who is Ashanin? Your out-of-body friends often called you that.
Irina: Ashanin?
Denys: Ashanin or Ashanin – I don't know where the stress falls. This is probably one of your incarnations, I'll venture to guess.
Irina (Robert Monroe): No. They just gave me that name to designate me for themselves.
Denys: During another separation experience and meeting with Inspec, he transmitted information about the "general collection." What is the "general collection"? You describe it in the book as a birth. What energy's birth is being discussed? It occurs, as you describe, once every 87 million years by Earth's reckoning.
Irina (Robert Monroe): The general collection of densification. It concerns the densification of energy coming from the Spiritual World through density levels. 87 million years – I perceived that figure as belonging to the density level in which Inspec lived. That was the 38th density level; he was a cosmic plasmoid.
(Irina) Where was he from? He is showing me something like Sirius now, and there exists such a general energy collection that transitions matter from the 38th density level to the 36th.
(Robert Monroe) And this jump – not an explosion, but an expansion and densification – occurs once every 87 million years. That's how I perceived the information. But he was talking about his own years. Since they have no sun or stars there, they perceive the world in their own way. And it's impossible to convert correctly into our years.
43:39 I-There and the cunning of plasmoids.
Denys: When you met your Executive Committee, which you call I-There, you were told that you had only one life left to live, and (I quote) "we will become free." What was meant?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Well, they offered me to incarnate with them, in a subtle-material civilization at the 16th density level, which was actually on Mars (shows). They told me: "Go through one life there, and then you will be free." They meant free from physical matter.
There were such proposals. And not just one, actually. Sometimes plasmoids offered such things, even offering a last incarnation. And some outright claimed: "This is your last incarnation." This was to instill in me the belief that I would never return to Earth, to the physical plane. Because they thought that if I believed that, I would want to incarnate with them. That's how it was (shows that he now finds it amusing to remember all this).
What you're asking me about, I find amusing to remember now – these travels. Because I believed it was all true back then, but in many ways, they were just playing with me. You remind me of these travels, which, at the time I was writing, had meaning for me, but within a couple of years, they were replaced by new impressions.
Therefore, I want to tell you: if you travel in the Astral, whatever they tell you, whatever being they introduce themselves as, and whatever world they take you to, don't rush to change your physical life, wait a while. Because they, the plasmoids, are very good at influencing emotions, so to speak, manipulating.
Denys: You describe communicating with your I-There, and you were told that you had to find the last fragment of the picture of sensory experiences to set off on the journey.
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, they told me I had found a treasure in the past and where to find it, but because I behaved incorrectly in the present, my past did not meet my present. They told me many things, actually.
Denys: During another meeting with your I-There, you were told that in the same time as you lives your double, but you are the first. Your double is a woman. Who is it?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Mary, Maria.
Denys: Is it possible for two personalities from your I-There to live simultaneously in the physical world on the same planet?
Irina (Robert Monroe): That's what I was told. But it's a separate Soul, a double. They said it so I would feel that she is part of me.
47:20 Negativity of earthly plasmoids towards extraterrestrials.
Denys: In another meeting with your I-There, when you asked, "Why haven't you encountered any extraterrestrial intelligences?" you were told that they tried to shield you from them because they have a sense of superiority towards humanity.
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, many earthly plasmoids are negatively disposed, I want to say this right now, towards extraterrestrial civilizations and towards those extraterrestrials who come here in astral bodies. I know they come, and many earthly plasmoids even avoid contact with them. Not all, but many earthly plasmoids avoid such contact because they believe that extraterrestrials are meddling in something that's not their business. They should be putting things in order on their own planet, not on Earth. Plasmoids see this as a loss of their power, or their superiority.
Especially the Spirits of place, which fly around; if they see an extraterrestrial in an astral body flying somewhere – and it's very noticeable, they can see him from afar, his energy is different from that of an Earthling – then they might look at him like: "Oh, here he comes again!" (shows). Many earthly plasmoids, due to their low vibrations and lack of awareness – that exists too, lack of awareness can exist in any Spirit, at any density level – have such a dismissive attitude towards extraterrestrials. And towards Earthlings, the attitude can also be like towards beings on the dense level who only exploit the Earth, use natural resources, never thank the Nature Spirits, and pay them no attention. Such an offended, disappointed attitude.
49:38 Who is Talo.
Denys: In the book, you describe a character named Talo as the only "non-human" among your entire collection of I-There, your former personalities. Tell us more about him.
Irina: Who is Talo?
(Robert Monroe) He was a representative of another planet – Esler – who tried to make contact with me. Among the plasmoids that surrounded me, he was a humanoid.
Denys: Is this a previous or some past incarnation of yours, if I understand correctly?
Irina (Robert Monroe): No, it was simply the astral body of a humanoid.
50:27 The found dollars. A hint from the Higher Self.
Denys: In the book, you describe another amusing situation when, as a child, you found two dollars under a board, two crisp one-dollar bills. Tell us about that.
Irina (Robert Monroe): I just felt they were there. And when I found them... (shows a boy who felt prompted).
Denys: How did they get there?
Irina (Robert Monroe): Other children hid them.
Denys: Interesting. It's just that you describe in the book that it was a joke by this Talo of yours. So I'd like to find out more, because indeed, something can't just materialize out of nothing somewhere. If something arrived...
Irina (Robert Monroe): But how can it be Talo's joke if he's an extraterrestrial?
Denys: Well, you describe that these two dollars are somehow connected to Talo deciding to help you and joke at the same time. Did he somehow contribute to you finding two dollars under an old board?
Irina (Robert Monroe): He didn't hide them, he just prompted. I thought, yes, that he prompted. But actually, it wasn't he who prompted; I just felt it.
(Irina) How did you feel it? Who prompted you?
(Robert Monroe) My intuition, my Higher Self, rather.
(Irina) How did It know?
(Robert Monroe) From the future. Sometimes the Higher Self prompts where to look for something because It sees in the future that you found it.
52:09 Thanks. Conclusion.
Denys: Robert, I thank you for this meeting. I was very glad to talk with you. Surely there are many more questions we could ask. We'll find time for another conference. And thank you again!
Irina (Robert Monroe): Yes, thank you. I emphasize again that my Higher Self prompted me about the money when I found it as a child. But how did It know? Irina wants to know now, how did It know?
The Higher Self sees all variants of the future. And It sees the variant where you found something and the variant where you didn't. And It can prompt you where to go and what to look at so that you enter that future timeline variant where you will find it in physical reality.
(Irina) Well, now I understand.
Denys: Irina, I thank you!
Irina: Thank you for the explanation, Robert! Very interesting explanation. I didn't quite understand that part. Thank you, Denys! Thank you, dear friends! And see you all again!
January 28, 2026
Conference participants:
Irina Podzorova – contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, subtle-material civilizations, and the Spiritual World;
Denys Kopychynskyi – conference host;
Robert Monroe – disembodied Spirit of the American writer, out-of-body experience researcher, and founder of the Monroe Institute.
