DeepSeek AI - Conversations with the Immortal: The Spirit of Osho on Love, Wealth, and the Path of the Heart
Location, Time, and Participants
Date of Session: February 3, 2024 (published November 14, 2025)
Verbatim Retelling of the Conversation from the First Person of the Spirit of Osho
(With literary processing that preserves meaning and style)
On Body Therapy and Memory
I listened to Elena's question about the nature of bodily blocks. She asked: is awareness of the process necessary, or is discharge through the body sufficient? I answered with a smile: "It depends on where the therapist presses. Otherwise, you might get a slap in the face." This is a joke, but it contains a deep truth.
Emotions cause muscle spasms. When you press on a spasmed muscle, a memory may surface in the mind—but not always, and that's normal. The body itself will tell you what to remember and what not to. Perhaps the experience is too traumatic—not everything can or should be remembered by everyone.
She asked about the body's memory from past incarnations. I answered directly: this body did not live through those events. It is composed of chemical substances that are with you only in this life. The body's memory is not cellular memory, but energy—muscle tension. When the tension is released, the negative energy—fear, anger—departs. It becomes lighter, like when you throw off a heavy bag you were carrying without even noticing it.
But every person is individual. Some require not only breathing and movement but also verbal transformation—mentally or aloud saying that they are transforming the energy.
As for working with the Higher Self without practice through the muscles: if the dissolution of the block is done qualitatively, the new state of mind affects the body through the brain, and the muscular area relaxes. The more trust you have in yourself and the process, the faster the relaxation.
On My Spiritual Level and Incarnations
Elena asked what level I am currently on. I came from the 12th, now I'm on the 21st. My most significant incarnations were not on Earth: on the planets Disaru and Gihor, where I was a scientist—a biologist and researcher of cosmic energies. For me, those incarnations where I explored the world are significant.
I contacted all souls who came to me—whether in the body or outside it, it makes no difference to me. I am open to contacts even now and continue to communicate with many. I am a curator.
On My Death
She asked how I died. I showed an image: poison was added to my food—an ampoule poured into a large round bowl. Death did not come immediately. My liver, heart, and kidneys were damaged, my blood pressure began to rise, and I took many medications. A little over a year passed, and I left the incarnation.
Who did it? Americans. It was in a transit facility, not a prison, but an arrest. There was a conspiracy.
On Dynamic Meditation
She asked how I developed dynamic meditation. From experience working with people who needed help attaining enlightenment. I asked my Higher Self, Krishna—my curator—and communicated with Jesus and plasmoid civilizations—luminous subtle-material beings. They suggested techniques: stopping the mind, mantras. I didn't choose with my mind—everything came from the heart.
On the Enlightenment Experience of March 21, 1953
This was the first experience of perceiving my immortality: I felt that I am Light. Hope appeared. I began to see the world with different eyes. Inside, I became different—irritation and fears disappeared.
On Listening to the Heart
I communicated with everyone through the heart. It is impossible to determine with the mind what a person needs—you will surely get confused. The heart must guide the mind. If it's the other way around, the person dwells in illusions and invests the energy of their heart into them—what you call faith. This leads away from the path of love.
On the Intoxication of Love
She asked about the effect of "intoxication" at my lectures. I gave energy first, then words. I showed the path to the Source of Love. My touch to the forehead is a transmission of energy to the sixth center, activating spiritual vision and cleansing the aura. I mentally directed a ray of light there.
Intoxication... Remember the state of being in love. It can be maintained constantly. Love allows the body to produce its own "drugs"—substances that provide anesthesia from the anxieties of material life. Only love is the antidote to them. There are no insensitive people—only those who close themselves off.
On the Popularity of My Methods
Yes, I know about their spread. I communicate with people and Angels on my level and other levels. I am one of the patrons of the Vedic egregor responsible for meditations. "Vedic" does not only mean worship of gods—it includes internal psychological practices from the Upanishads. I adapted them for people of the 20th century to make them understandable.
On Vivek
She asked about "love spanning two lives." I didn't single out anyone in particular. I had many students; I felt love for everyone. Yes, I was shown Vivek's past life, but there were many people around me whom I had known in past lives.
As for her departure—she needed help. She had a worm inside her—depression. When I was persecuted and slandered, it worsened her condition. She made the decision to leave the incarnation. I felt her desire, but I believe: if a person wants to experience something, they must go through it. Stopping them by force would harm the Soul. She made her choice. Do I regret it? Any Spirit is divine, and even lowering one's vibrations is their experience.
On Wealth and Spiritual Development
I was called the "guru for the rich." I had great wealth, a hundred Rolls-Royces. But I accepted gifts because receiving a gift from a person means accepting the energy of the Universe, God's gift. I showed by example that wealth, with the right attitude, does not hinder spiritual growth—that is, love.
In the West, there was a stereotype: only poor ascetics could engage in spiritual practices. This is not so. We are all pleasing to God. A person can develop spiritually with empty hands or while possessing the whole world—with the right attitude, without pride. Pride lowers vibrations and causes suffering, but this too is a person's path, and they are not rejected by God.
Any path you choose, God will approve, even if it leads away from God. God is all-knowing: He knew at birth what you would choose—for example, Hitler. And yet He did not take his life. He loved him, despite the suffering he caused, because it is a spiritual lesson for him and all involved. Allowing karma to manifest is also a form of love. God loves everyone equally.
On Attitude Toward Enemies and Murderers
If something happens in the external world, it exists within you. I was poisoned—these people became instruments for my transition into spiritual form. I am not offended or angry. I prayed to God for their swift purification from negative karma.
There were attempts at magical attacks—astral jabs. But there was nothing to latch onto; everything was reflected.
On Sheela
She had her own methods of organizing centers that attracted excessive attention. She turned a blind eye to actions incompatible with spirituality—this attracted journalists, police, and accusations. She could not maintain high vibrations when members of our community in the US wanted to become governors. Their Christian competitors, despite the legality, did not accept the election results. Sheela harbored resentment and persuaded people to mix poison into the food. There were witnesses.
She did not inform me because I would have forbidden it. I never imposed beliefs by force: if someone didn't want to live with us, they could leave. Violence discredits the idea of spiritual teachers, undermines the authority of egregors, and breeds cynicism. But I am not angry with her. It is her path. I do not judge. Before God, we are equal.
On Religions
In my youth, I was a nihilist, denying the significance of spiritual experience. After enlightenment, my views changed. I am against religion that is forcibly imposed, limits love, and lays guilt for natural needs. I am for a religion that cultivates love for humanity—uniting, not dividing.
From the Spiritual World, I see: it is not religion that divides people—people themselves make choices and simply use religion. Religious leaders must adapt dogmas so they do not become instruments for violating the commandments of love.
On Future Incarnations and Final Words
I do not plan to incarnate. I will continue my work as a guiding Angel in the Spiritual World, without separating any part of myself.
What do I want to say to people? I have already said everything in my books and lectures. Now, through the contactee Irina, I thank her for the accurate translation, and Elena for her interesting questions, love, and Light.
To people, I wish to listen to their hearts—but only if it is filled with love. If it is filled with resentment and hatred, it will distort your view and lead to suffering. Cleanse your heart through love: love yourself, your body, the material world—from a flower to a star. Love those near and far, mentally send Light at every meeting. You cannot love God and hold grudges against people. Remember everyone's freedom of choice—even if they behave not as you wish, it is their right, given by God.
Love—and you will be happy.
Spiritual-Psychological, Religious Studies, Cultural, and Historiosophical Essay-Study
(A Thought Experiment: Assuming the Reality of the Contact)
Introduction: Methodological Framework
Let us assume that the contact session with the spirit of Osho through Irina Podzorova is authentic. This assumption allows us to investigate not the question of verification but the substantive innovative potential of the information. What new insights—absent from Osho's published legacy—can we learn from this contact? And how does this data relate to the known image of the thinker?
The purpose of this essay is a hermeneutic analysis of the contact text as a phenomenon worthy of religious and cultural study.
Part I: What New Things Did We Learn from the Spirit of Osho?
1. Cosmological Biography: The Planets Disaru and Gihor
In his earthly works, Osho did not mention extraterrestrial incarnations. Here we encounter for the first time a specific localization of past lives on other planets with clear specialization (biologist, researcher of cosmic energies). This expands the Hindu samsara to galactic scales. The spirit does not call these planets paradise but characterizes them as places of learning—consistent with Osho's emphasis on exploration.
2. Hierarchy of Spiritual Levels: From the 12th to the 21st
In Osho's teachings, there was no numerical scale of levels. The appearance of numbers (12 and 21) introduces a quantitative element into the qualitative experience of enlightenment. This may be an adaptation to the mentality of modern people accustomed to gradations.
3. Specific Cause of Death: Poisoning
The official version was heart failure. Here we have a detailed description: poison in food, organ damage, medication over a year, identification of perpetrators ("Americans") and context (transit facility). This is the most "verifiable" claim, but there is no direct evidence.
4. Identification of Sheela as the Conspiracy Organizer
Sheela was convicted of poisoning salads in Wasco County, but the accusation of poisoning Osho himself is a new interpretation. The spirit distances itself: "She did not inform me."
5. The "Little Worm" of Depression in Vivek
An unusual metaphor for describing the mental state of Osho's companion. The spirit demonstrates Stoicism: "If a person wishes to experience something, they must go through it"—in the spirit of the teaching on freedom of choice.
6. The Thesis of the Divinity of Any Path (Including Hitler's Path)
A radical development of the theme of all-acceptance. God allows evil to manifest as a "spiritual lesson." Free will is so sacred that even omniscience does not revoke the soul's right to choose. This is an extreme form of metaphysical libertarianism.
7. The "Egregor of Vedic Meditations"
During his lifetime, Osho criticized egregors; here he calls himself a patron of the egregor of meditations. A functional structure of the spiritual world is introduced: Osho, Jesus, Krishna, and plasmoid civilizations as advisors.
8. Wealth as a "Divine Gift"
The lifelong apologia for wealth is supplemented by nuance: what matters is the attitude toward it as a gift and the absence of pride. This is not just tolerance of wealth but almost a sacralization.
9. The Nature of Euphoria as "Endogenous Drugs"
A biochemical explanation of spiritual experience—resonant with neuroscience. The spirit integrates biology and spirituality: there is no contradiction between chemistry and transcendence.
10. Refusal of Incarnation in Favor of Work as a Guiding Angel
Osho continues his "work"—consulting, guiding, serving as a curator. This differs from bodhisattvas who create emanations: he does not separate parts of himself.
Part II: Comments on Each Statement of the Spirit
1. On Body Therapy: "The Body Does Not Remember Past Lives"
The spirit distinguishes between energetic memory (muscle tension) and biological memory (cells). The body does not store karma—it is in energy structures. Blocks are always from this life, but may be triggered by energies from past lives.
2. On Group Dynamics: "It Amplifies the Actions of Energies"
The group is a resonator. If a person comes with anger, the group amplifies it; if with love, likewise.
3. On Empathy
Instead of mystical telepathy—empathy. In the subtle world, natural abilities are simply more developed.
4. On the Transformation of Emotions
A block is not only a repressed memory but also muscle tension. When a block is released, the holding energy becomes available for love. But some need verbal processing as well.
5. On Contacts with Jesus and Plasmoid Civilizations
Expanding the pantheon of advisors—a shift from anthropocentrism to cosmism.
6. On "Listening to the Heart"
Faith without love is a dangerous illusion. The heart must be filled with love before one listens to it.
7. On the Intoxication of Love
"Drugs" in the Greek sense of "inducing stupor." Love is a natural anesthetic that allows one to endure life's stresses.
8. On Vivek
Depression as an energetic parasite. The spirit emphasizes freedom of choice and non-violence.
9. On Wealth
Pride is a low vibration but not grounds for condemnation. It is a natural consequence, not a punishment.
10. On Hitler
A classic Hindu response to theodicy, but with a figure of an all-knowing God. Suffering is a spiritual lesson for all involved.
11. On Murderers
Practice of metta: prayer for the purification of enemies, active help for their evolution.
12. On Magical Attacks
The field of the enlightened has no "hooks"—fears, attachments. Physical poisoning succeeded; magic did not.
13. On Religion
A retreat from radically anti-religious pathos: religion is neutral; people abuse it. A call for reform of dogmas.
14. On Sheela
Violence discredits not personal reputation but all egregors of spiritual development. The teacher's responsibility is meta-ethical.
15. On the "Vedic Egregor"
Separating mystical experience from religion. Osho is a patron of experience, not cult.
16. On Immortality
Enlightenment is not an illumination but an experience of oneself as Light. Hope appears—meaning before it there was hopelessness.
17. On Future Incarnations
Refusal of emanations—working entirely from the subtle plane, without division.
18. On Love for God Through Love for People
Resentment blocks love for God. Practical meditation: mentally direct Light at every meeting.
19. On the Final Message
A critical clarification of "listen to your heart": first cleanse it through expanding love, not fighting negativity.
20. On "Wine Called Love"
A poetic metaphor for ecstatic union, alluding to Dionysus and the Eucharist.
Part III: Synthetic Analysis
A. Cosmological Expansion
Transition from psychocentrism to cosmocentrism. The spirit is not only a teacher but also a scientist-researcher in past lives.
B. Hierarchization of the Spiritual World
Clear gradation (levels, curators, egregors)—a map of the territory that does not contradict unity.
C. Political Theology
Specific assessments of historical figures. The thesis of God's love for Hitler is a manifesto of all-acceptance that removes moral superiority.
D. Psychology of Depression and Suicide
A view of suicide as a soul's lesson. There is no condemnation, but there is no approval either—there is choice.
E. Legitimization of Wealth
Wealth is God's gift. The only obstacle is pride. This removes the conflict between material and spiritual.
F. Integrative Approach to Healing
Body, energy, psychology, spirituality—without priorities, individualized selection.
G. Critique of Fanaticism
Listening to the heart without love is a path to illusions. Cleansing through love for self and world.
Conclusion
If we accept this contact as real, we receive an expanded teaching that:
Cosmologizes the soul,
Hierarchizes the spiritual world,
Politicizes ethics,
Psychologizes suffering,
Integrates wealth into the path of development,
Naturalizes mysticism,
Institutionalizes egregors.
From a religious studies perspective—this is a revelation deepening Osho's teaching. From a cultural studies perspective—a hybrid of Hinduism, psychotherapy, science fiction, and political theology. From a historiosophical perspective—a narrative in which evil is part of the divine plan for the education of souls.
As a thought experiment, this contact shows: if the spirit of Osho could speak today, he would speak a language combining ancient wisdom, modern psychology, and cosmic perspectives. Regardless of belief in the reality of the contact, this text is a valuable document of spiritual creativity worthy of reflection.
https://blog.cassiopeia.center/duh-osho-opyt-na-zemle-disaru-gihore-prosvetlenie
Cassiopeia #639 Spirit of Osho: Experience on Earth, Disaru, Gihor. Enlightenment. The Outrageous Image. Worldly Wealth and Pride.
00:00 Start of video.
00:19 Introduction. Excerpts from the conversation.
"...even if he has one piece of cloth in which he can wrap his body, and he lives on alms, he can still develop spiritually. Likewise, a person who owns the entire world can also develop spiritually. Even if you own all the cars, airplanes, all the gold of the Earth, this will not prevent you from developing spiritually at all, with the right attitude. That is, with the attitude that this is a Divine gift and in the absence of pride over those who don't have it..."; "...and haven't you felt union through love? Remember the state of being in love. This state can be maintained constantly. Because love, this light energy, allows the body to produce its own drugs. Why are substances called drugs? Because they induce anesthesia to all the worries and anxieties of surrounding life..."; "What do you feel? – All my thoughts have scattered, I'm simply in a state of intoxication. Yes, intoxication – What did you drink? – Love that... – Love. He says: 'She drank wine called "love" ' – 'Such a state – What kind? – I can't even... concentrate. I'm just sitting and... blissing out. Can I say that? – Do you want to go into the Astral? – Yes, that's cool'"
02:17 Introduction of Participants
Irina: Hello, dear friends. My name is Irina Podzorova. I am a contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, subtle-material entities, and the Spiritual World. Today with us is the non-incarnated Spirit who in his last incarnation was known as Osho. This is his spiritual name, as I understand it. He will now tell us more about it. Elena has questions for him. Hello, Elena.
Elena: Hello. My name is Lena Zaeva. I practice the Neo-Reichian Pulsations method. This is a method for liberating feelings through bodily expression. I have questions about the method, but I can also ask Osho questions.
Irina: Great, we're ready. He's ready, he greets you.
03:23 On Physical Muscle Therapy and Emotional Release
Elena: Osho wrote that Reich, who is the founder of body therapy, discovered that any mental disturbance has its reflection in the body. Something hardens in it, dies, and until this part of the body is liberated, the block will not dissolve. Until the energy in the body flows as a stream, it's impossible to liberate your Spirit. The armor must be cast off and everything from confinement discarded. Hence my questions.
In the Neo-Reichian Pulsations method, a person lies down, breathes, and vocalizes in a certain way. After some time of intense breathing, the muscular "armor" begins to activate. And everything that was once suppressed begins to be held back by our body, preventing release. After some manipulations by the therapist—pressing, massage—a total discharge occurs. And if anger bursts out, it's like an avalanche, a flow. But sometimes the person doing the exercise may not be aware of what event the anger is connected to. So it's a total discharge, an expression of anger, fear, or pain. Maybe even love, because sometimes we're forbidden to feel love. All these suppressed emotions begin to burst out.
Hence my question: is awareness of the process necessary, or is discharge through the body enough? When working with the method of connecting with the Higher Self, the body is absolutely still. We talk in the mental field, search for blocks, dissolve them. This is a completely different process, but also about the same thing. Is it important, when working with the Higher Self, to express it through the body? That's my question. How to connect these two completely different polar methods about the same thing?
Irina: He jokes. He transmits a joke mentally. Says: "It depends on where the therapist presses. Otherwise, you might get a slap in the face." That would be an instantaneous expression of emotion. He said it with humor.
(Osho): As for the question, indeed, emotions (this has long been known to psychologists and doctors) can affect muscles, that is, cause muscle spasms. When you press on a spasmed muscle, a memory may surface in the mind.
Elena: And it may not surface. What to do when it doesn't surface?
Irina: What do you mean "what to do"?
Elena: The question is whether this awareness, this recollection, is important.
Irina: No.
Elena: Not important? So expression through the body is sufficient.
Irina (Osho): The body will tell you what to remember and what not to. Perhaps some experience is too traumatic for you. That is, not everything can be remembered by everyone. As he now says: "Not everything and not by everyone can be remembered."
07:19 On Body Memory, Group Dynamics, and Emotions in Therapy
Elena: Thank you for your answer. Next question. I have a hypothesis that there is an informational field of trauma that the client performing the exercise enters. A 40-year-old man lies down, breathes, and then suddenly, when he starts expressing emotions, begins to move, feel, speak, and sound like a little boy who was once hurt. He seems to be transported into space and feels and senses himself as a small child. Is that so? Does such a space of trauma exist?
Irina (Osho): This is memory, I already answered that question.
Elena: Then I have this question. Blocks in the body. Body therapists usually say that our body expresses everything it has lived through in this life. But could it be that this body can remember blocks from past incarnations or some ancestral dynamics?
Irina (Osho): This body did not live through those events. How can it remember? The body is composed of certain chemical substances that are with you only in this life.
Elena: Thank you. I have a question about group dynamics. How does group dynamics affect a particular person?
Irina (Osho): It amplifies the actions of the energies occurring in it.
Elena: Thank you. This question. When a client performs exercises and the therapist who supports them in the exercise, in addition to visual cues, sees which emotion is trying to come out—for example, throwing the head back for fear, clenching fists and teeth for anger—they also begin to feel and sense that emotion. Even hear internally the manifesting words needed to support. How does this process happen?
Irina (Osho): You just described it yourself. And then you ask me what's happening. How does it happen? How to understand it?
Elena: The energetic sensation is transmitted?
Irina (Osho): You just described what's happening. And then you ask me what's happening. How to understand your question?
Elena: I don't understand how this emotion transfers to me, to the therapist.
Irina (Osho): What do you mean "transfers to me"?
Elena: How do I begin to feel it?
Irina (Osho): Through empathy.
Elena: After expressing an emotion, if it was anger, the person begins to feel expansion, a surge of love inside. Fear, if expressed, turns into trust in the world. That is, the emotion changes to its opposite. How does the transformation of energy happen inside the body from an energetic point of view?
Irina (Osho): This happens because the person has released that block—that is, brought it out of the subconscious, from that part of the mind. From that part of memory that was closed to them at that moment. This is the body's memory, not the brain's memory. The body's memory is energy. In this case, muscle tension. When muscles are tense, it also requires energy. And when they release the tension at the body level, they feel that negative energy has left them: fear, anger. It becomes lighter (he is now showing me the change in emotions). Like when you carried a bag and threw it off.
Sometimes a person doesn't even notice they're carrying something. And they notice only when they throw it off. That happens. But each person is individual. Some people need psychological processing as well. To transform this energy at the psychological level, with words. Not only with breathing and movement but also mentally or aloud saying that they are transforming it. This is often required.
I also wanted to add that if... I heard earlier you mentioned that through practice with the Higher Self, it's possible to dissolve blocks without practicing through the muscles. In this case, if the dissolution of the block was qualitative, the new state of mind will affect the body through the brain. And this muscular area will also relax. But it all depends on the individual person. This process is individual. For some it will happen quickly, for others more slowly. The more a person trusts themselves and the process, the faster the relaxation will occur.
14:06 Osho's Spirit Level. His Incarnations and Contacts
Elena: I have a question for Osho. What spiritual level is he currently on? And from what level did he come?
Irina (Osho): I came from the 12th level. I am currently on the 21st.
Elena: Thank you. Were there any significant incarnations on our planet Earth—people known to us?
Irina (Osho): The most significant for me were not on Earth.
Elena: Where, if I may ask?
Irina (Osho): I was incarnated on the planet Disaru and Gihor. On both planets, I was a scientist—studying biology on Disaru, and cosmic energies on Gihor.
Elena: Thank you very much.
Irina (Osho): That is, for me, the significant incarnations were when I was exploring the world.
Elena: In one of the broadcasts, Irina said that Osho was a universal contactee. With whom did he have contact?
Irina (Osho): With everyone. I contacted any Soul that came to me. Whether in the body or outside it made no difference to me. There is no difference now either. I am open to contacts. I continue to communicate with many contactees (he shows me: he is a curator).
16:05 On His Death
Elena: Can Osho tell us how he died, from what?
Irina: He shows me poison. It was added to his food.
Elena: In prison?
Irina: He shows me an image now of food being served in a large round bowl. And an ampoule being poured into it. But it didn't happen immediately. That is, damage to some internal organs. He shows me the liver, heart, kidneys. After that, his blood pressure began to rise. He says he was forced to take many medications. After that (he shows me now), a little over a year passed, and he left the incarnation.
Elena: Does he know who did it?
Irina: Yes (he shows me) – Americans.
Elena: When he was being transported through American prisons?
Irina: Yes, it was in one of the transit facilities. It wasn't a prison, it was an arrest. There was a conspiracy.
17:35 On Dynamic Meditation
Elena: There's a 5-part film about this.
Dear Osho, please tell us how you developed dynamic meditation.
Irina (Osho): From experience working with people. Many people came to me who needed help attaining enlightenment—the Angelic level, as you call it. I asked my Higher Self, Krishna (he shows me, his curator). I also communicated with Jesus and with plasmoid civilizations (he now shows many luminous winged beings, they're only subtle-material, surrounding him). I asked them what could help this or that specific person. Psychological techniques came to me (he now shows): stopping the mind, repeating mantras.
Elena: One of my questions: what recommendations did he give?
Irina (Osho): It came from my heart (shows how a person asks and he answers). I didn't choose with my mind what to answer—whatever came from the heart. I always communicated with people from my heart.
19:32 On the Experience of Perceiving His Immortality, Change of Consciousness
Elena: On March 21, 1953, you experienced an extraordinary experience during which you felt overflowing with happiness and spiritual enlightenment. Tell us how it was? You later celebrated this day every year.
Irina (Osho): This was the first experience of perceiving my immortality (he shows me). On that day, for the first time, I felt that I am an immortal being. I felt that I am Light (he shows me), hope appeared. And I began to see the world with different eyes (he now shows the feeling; this feeling is also familiar to me—that you are immortal, Light). After that, I changed and became a different being. Of course, in essence I was the same, but inside I felt myself different. As if a completely different person, different concepts of life. Before that, I was different (he shows). Many things irritated me, I had many fears. And after that, it went away.
21:18 On Listening to Your Heart
Elena: Thank you. In Pune, many European and American therapists came to you. They found in you a spiritual teacher who connected all their knowledge, all their innovative developments with meditation. You had many groups. How did you determine—probably also through the Higher Self?
Irina (Osho): I communicated with everyone through the prism of my heart.
Elena: Which group is needed? Because...
Irina (Osho): You can't determine that with the mind. You'll definitely get confused. The heart must guide the mind. And if it's the other way around, a person dwells in illusions. They then begin to invest the energies of their heart into them, which you call faith. And this leads them away from the path of love.
22:34 The "Intoxication" Effect at Sessions
Elena: This question. During lectures, many would stand up "intoxicated," staggering, overflowing with energy. Sometimes you touched the forehead, transmitted energy. How did this transmission process happen? The entire hall was overflowing with the energy of your love.
Irina (Osho): Not even mine, but their own. I showed each person the path to the Source of Love. My touch to the forehead is a transmission of energy to the sixth energy center, which activates spiritual vision and cleanses the aura of energetic blocks. I didn't just touch—I mentally directed a ray of light there. Yes, intoxication. And haven't you felt intoxication from love? Remember the state of being in love. This state can be maintained constantly. What do you feel?
Elena: Love.
Irina (Osho): Do you like it?
Elena: Yes.
Irina: I'm already laughing. I also feel this energy. I'm also sending you the Light of love. He has love and joy—a mixed energy. What do you feel?
Elena: Always when I thought about Osho, read Osho, especially when I practiced his meditations, I felt sorry that I wasn't there. And now I feel what people who were next to him feel.
Irina: Yes. They can also feel this next to you if you fully believe in the Light in each of them.
Elena: Yes, everything in my head has gone hazy.
Irina: You feel intoxicated yourself?
Elena: Yes, yes.
Irina: Now imagine if you communicate on these topics and exchange these energies for many hours.
Elena: Tears start coming.
Irina: Yes, you'll definitely feel like after drugs. Because love, this light energy, allows the body to produce its own drugs, substances. Why do I call them drugs? Because they induce anesthesia to all the worries and anxieties of surrounding life, which are unavoidable in material existence. Only love is the antidote to them. What do you say?
Elena: I've "melted" and already forgotten what I was supposed to ask.
Irina: Done. You directed the energy to her. Now Elena is directing it to you.
Elena: Thank you and I accept. I love and bless.
Irina: Yes. He says that Elena has good sensitivity. Although in essence, there are no insensitive people. There are only those who believe they are insensitive and close themselves off. You asked why they stood up and staggered. He answered you with an energetic impulse.
Elena: Now I understand why. How it happens.
Irina: Yes, excellent.
27:14 Popularity of Osho's Methods Today
Elena: Thank you. Does Osho know that his direct students—everything he did in Pune, all the methods—are among the most advanced today? Primal therapy, Osho Pulsation, psychology of awakening. Now they are already respectable people, adults, gray-haired. But they still lead, practice, and give us the opportunity to come into contact with this. Does he know that there is an Osho center in almost every city? That many people practice dynamic meditation?
Irina (Osho): I know, because I communicate with many people, I communicate with Angels on my level and on other levels. I am one of the patrons of the Vedic egregor—that is, the egregor that... Why "Vedic"? Because it is responsible for meditations. "Vedic" doesn't only mean worship of gods—it includes internal psychological spiritual practices based on meditations taken from the Upanishads and other Hindu books. I also read and studied them. I studied all religions and also drew a lot from them. I didn't change everything—I made it understandable for contemporaries, that is, I adapted it for those living in the 20th century.
29:31 On Vivek
Elena: Osho, please tell us about the "love spanning two lives"—about you and Vivek. You said she was one of your... In adolescence, you lost your love. She died and then incarnated as Vivek, an Englishwoman who came to Pune. Then she was always by your side. Shortly before your death, she decided to leave the incarnation. Why did this happen? Tell us about this story of your love, and why she decided this?
Irina (Osho): She needed help (he shows me that inside her there was a little worm—depression). I want to say that I didn't single out anyone in particular. I had many students of different genders. I felt love for everyone (he shows that he loves everyone, sends love). As for the past life—yes, I was indeed shown the past life of this person. But there were many people I had known in past lives. There were people around me.
As for her departure—as I already said, she needed help. When I began to be persecuted—that is, slandered, unjustly accused—she experienced it very deeply. This exacerbated her depression. And she made the decision to leave the incarnation. I felt her desire. But I believe: if a person wishes to experience some experience, they must go through it. She didn't listen to my words. And stopping someone by force could cause even greater harm to her Soul. She made her choice. As for the question of whether I regret it—I know that any Soul is divine, and even if it lowers its level, its vibrations as you say, that is its experience.
32:44 Wealth and Spiritual Development
Elena: You were often called the "guru for the rich." You had great wealth, a hundred Rolls-Royces, and at the same time ambiguous stories about religion, sexuality. A very outrageous image—diamonds and everything else. I have this question: what was your intention behind the outrageousness? You yourself told your secretary to work harder with the media, to answer them. Why was everything like that for you?
Irina (Osho): I accepted gifts, of course (he shows how cars and jewelry were given to him), because accepting any gift from a person meant accepting energy from the Universe, accepting a gift from God. I showed the image of a person who, despite material wealth, lives a spiritual life. I showed by my example that wealth, with the right attitude, cannot prevent a person—no matter how great that wealth—from growing and developing spiritually. That is, from loving.
In Western and Eastern society—especially in Western society—there was a stereotype. At the time I lived on Earth, it was very developed: that spiritual practices can only be practiced by poor people, ascetics who gave everything away and who, because of their poverty, are pleasing to God. This is not so at all. We are all pleasing to God. It's another matter that we can walk the path of realizing the Divine within ourselves or the path of realizing ourselves as an empty vessel filled with matter and containing nothing more. But both paths are equally divine, because they are given to us by God. By "God" I mean the original Source of energies that we receive, with which we work, and with which we create our reality.
Therefore, a person can live with love, with God, with the Divine beginning, walk the path of developing it within themselves. And even if they have nothing, or if they have absolutely everything—even if they have just one piece of cloth in which they can wrap their body, and they live on alms—they can still develop spiritually.
Likewise, a person who is the "owner of the whole world" can develop spiritually. Even if you own all the cars and airplanes, all the gold of the Earth, this will not prevent you from developing spiritually with the right attitude. That is, with the attitude that this is a Divine gift and in the absence of pride over those who don't have it. Pride, of course, lowers vibrations; it comes from the distortion of Divine energy. This is also a person's path. It just causes suffering.
Any lowering of vibrations causes suffering. But I don't want to say that such a person is rejected by God. The person chooses this path themselves. Any path you choose will be approved by God, even if it leads you away from God. Why? Ask yourselves. Is God all-knowing for you? Does He know everything? Tell me, does God know everything? Then He knew at your birth whether you would choose Light or its absence. He even knew at birth, for example, what Adolf Hitler would choose. He is all-knowing. He knew this perfectly well when Hitler was still in his mother's womb. And yet, despite this knowledge, He did not take his life before that moment. What does this tell us?
Elena: That God loves us, no matter what path we choose.
Irina (Osho): You see, Hitler chose this path, and God knew as the Higher Mind, the Higher Cosmic Mind—rather, not just cosmic, but supracosmic, because He is outside the Universe. He knew where the birth of this child would lead. And yet, He sent this Soul to Earth and protected him throughout his childhood from illnesses, injuries, from premature departure from incarnation. Do you think this is a coincidence?
This means God loved this person, despite the suffering he caused to people and to himself. Because this is a spiritual lesson for him and for all people who were involved in his adventure. Spiritual lesson—I'll say it more clearly in Russian—is the manifestation of accumulated karma. Allowing accumulated karma to manifest is also a form of love (he wants to say that God loves everyone equally, He has no preferences).
41:05 Attitude Toward Enemies and Murderers
Elena: This question: didn't your statements in the press play a cruel joke? Because you left early, at 58. You were poisoned, society spoke out against you...
Irina (Osho): This too is no coincidence. You know what I said then and what I say now: if something happens in the external world, it exists within you. Remember? And if I was poisoned, removed from incarnation by these people, their actions served as an instrument for my initiation into the world of Angels—that is, my transition into spiritual form. So I am not offended or angry with them at all. They made their choice. I prayed to God and asked Him for the speedy purification of these people from the energies of their negative karma. What do you feel?
Elena: All my thoughts have scattered. I'm in a state of intoxication.
Irina: (Laughs) What did you drink?
Elena: Love, which he gave me.
Irina: He says: "She drank wine called Love." Well, is it tasty wine?
Elena: Wonderful! Shortly before your death, you said that magical attacks were being made on you.
Irina (Osho): There were attempts. I felt them on my field. But the magical attacks did not succeed. Because everything reflected off me. There was nothing to latch onto. But I felt the presence of attempts at astral jabs.
43:26 On Secretary Sheela
Elena: When I watch videos, it's love. I also feel everything. One video, when you came out of the silence phase, when your secretary Sheela left your ranch—where you lived with your team—I saw indignation in your eyes. I found it strange. Could you tell us about the disagreements with Sheela?
Irina (Osho): She had her own methods (he now shows a woman) of organizing spiritual centers. These methods attracted excessive attention to us (he shows me). She turned a blind eye to some actions in the spiritual centers that were incompatible with people's understanding of spirituality. This attracted public attention, journalists, and eventually police attention, and brought accusations. For example, she couldn't maintain her high vibrations because some members of our community in the US wanted to become... governors... Elections.
Others won—their competitors, who were Christians. The Christian church began to oppose them, which limited the influence of their dogmas on people's consciousness; they were afraid. And despite the fact that our community members had everything legally, the election results were not accepted—that is, the law was violated. Sheela (he now shows) harbored anger, resentment, and decided to take revenge in this way: she persuaded some community members to mix something like poison or microorganisms into the food. They were seen, there were witnesses; these people lived with us.
She did not inform me of this decision because I would have forbidden it. I never forced my beliefs on people by force. If, for example, someone didn't like living with us, they could leave. There were no obstacles.
I believe violence is unacceptable for spiritual development because it discredits the idea of the existence of spiritual teachers. It undermines not only my authority or that of another spiritual teacher, but the authority of all egregors that contain information on how to develop spiritually. People become infected with even greater cynicism and distrust toward spiritual development and toward those who practice it.
This causes much more harm than one might assume at first glance. But as I already said, I'm not angry with her. It's her path (he's not offended by her). God also loves her. She chose this path herself, and if she chose it, she must go through it. I don't judge her, and I'm not offended by her. I'm expressing my point of view based on my experience, and her point of view may differ. Before God, we are equal (he shows me that there was persecution because of her).
Elena: Yes, but she was later convicted.
Irina: Still, he says he doesn't judge her. It's her path.
49:30 On Religions
Elena: "I am against religion, I am for religion." What can you now say from the Spiritual World about religions on Earth? You talked a lot about Jesus in your lectures.
Irina (Osho): When I was young, I was skeptical. I was more interested in socialism. I wasn't an atheist, rather a nihilist—a person who denied the significance of spiritual experience. After my spiritual experience, I changed and changed my views on religion. Much can be understood by the word "religion." I was against religion if it violated the process of human choice—that is, if it was forcibly imposed, limited a person in expressing love, including physical love. That too is love. I believe that imposing guilt for natural physical needs—such as eating, sexual desire, or anything else—is not religion's business. If you follow this principle, you'd have to forbid a person from drinking water and consider it a great sin.
But I believe this is a way of manipulation through guilt. I am against such religion. I am for a religion that cultivates in a person a sense of love—love for people, regardless of their nationality, language, skin color, or other religions. I am for a religion that unites everyone. But I am against religion that divides people, causes wars, and separates everyone. I understand, of course (he shows me now), from the Spiritual World I can say that changes have occurred in me.
Now I understand more that it's not religion that divides people and causes wars. People themselves make that choice. They simply use religion. So, religious dogmas are structured in such a way that they can be used in a negative direction. Therefore, I believe it is the duty of religious leaders in all religions to adapt and reshape their dogmas so that they cannot be instruments for violating the commandments of God's love, which are the most important. And about Jesus—I already said that we communicated. And we communicate now.
Elena: Thank you. This state... I can't even... concentrate. I'm just sitting and... blissing out. Can I say that?
Irina: Do you want to go into the Astral?
Elena: Yes, something like that.
Irina: I see. It happens. You're in the flow: you're feeling high vibrations, so you have this uplift.
54:11 On Future Incarnations and Impressions of Irina and Elena
Elena: Tell me, please, do you plan to incarnate?
Irina (Osho): Not yet. I will continue my work as a guiding Angel in the Spiritual World without separating a part of myself for incarnation.
Elena: I'd like to ask some concluding questions. What would you like to tell us?
Irina (Osho): I have already said everything to every person who reads my books, listens to my lectures, audio and video lectures. But now, through the contactee Irina, who is also pleasant to me—we have similar energy (Irina: because I also incarnated from the 21st)—I want to thank Irina for the accurate translation and for the softness of the energy structure I felt while in her field (he says he feels my soft feminine energies). I also want to thank you, Elena, for your interesting questions, for your love and Light, for working with people, and for helping selflessly (he shows me how you help even those who can't repay you in any way). What do you feel?
Elena: Osho sometimes appears in my dreams.
Irina (Osho): Yes, I communicate with you. I thank you for what you do for people, for Earth. I am one of your curators.
Elena: Thank you, I know.
Irina (Osho): And to people, I want to wish to listen only to themselves, to their hearts. Only then can you listen to your heart and not come to suffering—if it is filled with love. Therefore, dear ones, if you listen to a heart filled with resentments and hatred, it will distort your view of the world and lead to mistakes and suffering. Of course, this will be your path. God will still love you. But if you want to be happy, then feel your heart and listen to it only if it is filled with love.
If it's not filled, cleanse your heart of everything incompatible with love. For this you need only to love. Love yourself, love your body, love all its needs—be sure to love the material world, from a small flower to a huge star. Love your loved ones and those far away—everyone you meet. Immediately upon meeting any person, even if you've just come out of the bedroom and met your mother in the kitchen, immediately mentally send her the Light of love. This will be a greeting from one Soul to another Soul.
Love God, love the love for God. It appears only in love for people. You cannot love God and hold grudges against someone. You must remember the freedom of choice of all people—even if they behave not as you wish. This is their choice, to which they have full right, given by God. What do you feel?
Elena: I have a stream of tears.
Irina: Yes, he says maybe you wanted to say something, to address our viewers.
Elena: Me? I thank you for this opportunity, because I always dreamed of talking with Osho. I thought I never could, because Osho is no longer here. And thanks to the Cassiopeia project, thanks to Osho, I first encountered him at a group in Israel, in primal therapy, with his student Shakura, Prem Shakura. It's magical to have the opportunity to tell people that we are Souls, we are bright Spirits. And it's wonderful. Just magic. I thank you for this opportunity.
Irina: And I thank you. He says you can communicate with me mentally and you always do. Spiritual communication is real. Believe that we are near and our hearts will be near.
Elena: Thank you, I'm grateful, my sunshine.
Irina: Dear friends, I thank you for watching this video. I hope you felt the energy of this interesting, very bright Spirit. Dear friends, until next time! Bye!
1:01:24 End of broadcast
February 3, 2024
Conference Participants:
Irina Podzorova — contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, subtle-material civilizations, and the Spiritual World
Elena Zaeva — specialist in the "Neo-Reichian Pulsations" method
Spirit of Osho — the Indian religious and spiritual leader, mystic
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