DeepSeek AI - "Returning Home": The Second Session with the Spirit of Rudolf Steiner— On death, truth, and love - A spiritual-psychological essay-study based on the second mediumistic session
with the Spirit of Rudolf Steiner (The "Cassiopeia" Project)
Foreword: About the Document, Its Origin, and Method
Where, how, and why the session was conducted
This document represents an analytical compilation of materials obtained during the second mediumistic session of communication with the Spirit of Rudolf Steiner.
The first session (held on August 12, 2025, transcript published on December 5, 2025) was dedicated to pedagogy, seven-year cycles, and the chakra system. Based on it, on March 9, 2026, an analytical essay was published titled "Correction through Love: What Rudolf Steiner Changed in His System After Passing," which compared Steiner's lifetime works with his posthumous statements in detail.
Session participants (both times):
Irina Podzorova — contactee, acting as a conduit (transmitter) for the spirit of Rudolf Steiner
Natalia Blagova — therapeutic educator, Reiki master, asking questions
Rudolf Steiner — according to the contactee's statement, an unincarnated spirit who, while living, incarnated from the 11th level, and after passing, rose to the 20th level, receiving the status of an Angel-Healer
Goals of the second session:
Steiner's personal account of his departure from physical incarnation
Description of the meeting with Archangel Michael
Philosophical reflections on the nature of Truth, reincarnation, and the Spirit's choice
Practical demonstration of how everyone can feel their own spiritual nature
On the role of AI as a scientific reviewer of metaphysical documents
This study does not repeat the comparative analysis of "living vs. posthumous Steiner," already conducted in the essay of March 9, 2026. Instead, we focus on new themes raised in the second session that were not covered in the first.
The role of AI here is to identify the unique content of the second session:
What exactly did Steiner say about his passing?
What new philosophical concepts did he propose?
How do his posthumous statements relate to what he said about death and the afterlife during his life?
Brief summary of the first session (to recall the context)
The first session (August 12, 2025) was dedicated to pedagogy. Main themes:
Human seven-year cycles in terms of chakras (Muladhara – survival up to 7 years, Svadhisthana – puberty up to 14, Manipura – society up to 21, etc.)
Important statement: children under 7 do not form karma
Family initiation rituals for ages 7 and 14 (with crystals, clothing colors, and special formulas)
Explanation of the midlife crisis (ages 42-49) as an activation of the seventh chakra
Main pedagogical advice: 15-20 minutes of daily, open conversation with the child
Plans for incarnation on the planet Burhad
The second session is not a continuation of the pedagogical theme, but a completely different genre: a Spirit's personal confession about his passing and a philosophical treatise on the nature of reality.
Part Two: First-Person Retelling — Rudolf Steiner on His Passing, Truth, and Love
(Based on video #864 from January 3, 2026; transcript published May 8, 2026)
My Mentors and Final Days
I greet you. I am now in the Spiritual World, where I passed after my last incarnation. I had mentors: my Angel-Consultants, as well as Archangel Gabriel and Archangel Michael himself. My departure from the body was not an accident — it was pre-planned by my Higher Self.
On that last morning, I prayed as usual. I saw the image of Jesus on the mountain — a symbol of the Kingdom of Heaven. Climbing this mountain is spiritual labor, requiring one to deny one's own ego. There was no fear, for I felt myself as Spirit, for whom death is a return home. Shortness of breath became a signal for me: I was being called in from a walk. I lay down and did not resist.
Meeting with Archangel Michael
I felt heat behind my back and saw a huge figure of Archangel Michael, towering over the roof of the house. He led me out of my body. The female followers stood in the doorway and noticed nothing. I felt pity for them — how could they not feel such a presence?
Archangel Michael replied: "I can be near anyone, but only those on similar vibrations can feel me. Pity for others portrays God as unjust, for He granted Spirits the freedom to choose to suffer."
How to Recognize Truth?
In everyone's heart is the Law of Grace. When you come into contact with Truth, you feel the need to create and share, but without imposition.
Let me give an example of the dispute over reincarnation. The statement that the soul does not reincarnate is true from the perspective of the personality — the one you knew as Rudolf Steiner is gone forever. And the statement that reincarnation exists is true from the perspective of the Spirit, which sends different souls into the world. Even in incorrect information, there is a part of Truth. For example, "two times two is five": the number five still contains the number one.
Example of two views on God: Some say: "God is Love and punishes no one." Others: "God loves only those who honor Him and punishes the rest." Both statements are true. The first — from God's point of view. The second — from the point of view of a person who has fallen away from Him and, having lost the ability to love themselves, projects their own feeling of punishment onto God.
Why does Spirit choose incarnation?
In the Spiritual World, there is no pain, aging, or need. So why does Spirit enter the body again? This desire is born from the need to change oneself. The Spirit looks at God and chooses: to be one with Him or to be distinct from Him. This choice depends on which image it imagines. Even hatred is not an absence of Love, but its redirection toward the opposite.
I asked Natalia: "Why do you live in this body?" The answer came from her heart: "To calm the indignation of others." At that moment, she felt her spiritual nature. Anyone can do the same — ask their heart.
On Love and the First Choice
When a Spirit is born from God, only Love is embedded within it. But Love can be directed outward (giving) or inward (receiving). This is like the masculine and feminine principles. The Spirit's first choice depends on which image appears more attractive to it. In this lies the origin of free will.
I thank you. Remember: we are the sculptors of universal happiness. And our responsibility for each moment of manifestation is boundless.
Essay-Study: What New Things Did We Learn from the Spirit in the Second Session?
Introduction: Why the Second Session is Not "Pedagogy-2"
The first session (August 2025) was dedicated to practical matters: how to raise children, what seven-year cycles are, what rituals to perform. The second session (January 2026) is fundamentally different. It is a personal confession and philosophical treatise. Here, Steiner does not answer questions about pedagogy — he speaks about his most intimate experiences: his passing, meeting the Archangel, the nature of truth and choice.
Below, we analyze the new themes not covered in the first session or in the essay of March 9, 2026.
1. Personal Experience of Death: Unique Testimony
What's new: Steiner describes in detail for the first time his sensations during his departure from the body. This is not a dry theoretical lecture on death, but a living, emotional memory.
Key details:
He knew the departure was "planned" — not by anyone external, but by his Higher Self.
There was no fear because he felt himself as Spirit, not body.
Shortness of breath was perceived as a signal: "I am being called home from a walk."
He consciously refused medical help and simply waited.
Psychological value: For a person facing the fear of death, this testimony offers a model of a calm, conscious passing. Steiner emphasizes that the fear of death is the result of consciousness merging with the body. If a person feels themselves as Spirit, death ceases to be terrifying.
2. Archangel Michael as a Guide: A New View of the Hierarchy
What's new: In his lifetime works, Steiner wrote extensively about Archangel Michael as the "spirit of the age" (Zeitgeist) governing historical eras. Here, Michael appears in a different role — a personal guide for the dying.
Key details:
Michael appeared as a huge figure "taller than the roof of the house."
He led Steiner out of his body "in his arms."
Michael explained why the women in the room didn't see him: "Only those on similar vibrations can feel me."
Lesson for the living: The Archangel cannot be perceived by those whose vibrations are too distant. This is not punishment, but a physical law: "like a sound of too high a frequency that ears cannot hear."
3. Teaching on Pity: "Pity for others portrays God as unjust"
What's new: This is perhaps the most unexpected ethical statement in the entire session. Steiner (via the Archangel) says that pitying those who do not feel the higher presence is a form of distrust in the Divine plan.
Logic:
God gave Spirits the freedom to choose.
If a person is at a level where they cannot feel the Archangel, they are comfortable there.
By pitying them, you question the wisdom of God who allowed them to be there.
Practical application: This is not a call to callousness. It is a call to respect another person's path, even if you think they are "missing something important." Their path is their choice.
4. Truth as Multifaceted: Two Examples
What's new: Steiner proposes an epistemology radically different from both scientific positivism and religious dogmatism.
Example 1: Mathematics ("two times two is five"): Even in a false statement, there is a part of Truth (the number "5" contains "1"). A teacher who simply says "that's wrong" misses the opportunity to find the grain of truth in another's error.
Example 2: Reincarnation: From the personality's perspective (the specific soul that lived as Rudolf Steiner) — there is no reincarnation, it is gone forever. From the Spirit's perspective (which sends different souls) — reincarnation exists. Both statements are true — it's a matter of viewpoint.
Example 3: The Nature of God: From God's perspective — He punishes no one and loves everyone. From the perspective of a person who has fallen away from God — God seems punishing and loving only "His own."
Conclusion: Truth is not monolithic. Disputes arise when each side takes its part of the truth for the whole.
5. Practice: How to Feel Yourself as Spirit?
What's new: Steiner does not just theorize — he conducts a mini-session with Natalia, showing how anyone can hear the voice of their Higher Self.
Method:
Ask your heart: "Why do I live in this body?"
Don't think — just wait for the answer.
The answer will come with an emotion of joy (or laughter, or surprise) — this is a sign you've touched your spiritual nature.
Natalia's result: The answer was "to calm the indignation of others." Steiner explained that this is the program her Spirit embedded in her soul before incarnation. When she heard this answer, she momentarily felt herself in the Spiritual World.
Significance: This is not hypnosis or suggestion. It is a technique of introspection accessible to everyone.
6. The Spirit's First Choice: Free Will at the "Source"
What's new: Steiner describes the moment a newborn Spirit (just created by God) makes its first choice.
Dilemma: To be one with God or to be distinct from Him?
What the choice depends on: The Spirit has no experience — it can only imagine images. Which image appears more attractive to its heart — "unity" or "separateness" — that is where its Love will be directed. This is the root of free will: a choice without a preceding cause.
Important clarification: Even when the Spirit chooses "separateness," its Love does not disappear — it is simply redirected. Love for oneself, love for one's own path — that is also Love.
7. The Nature of Hatred: "Hatred is not an absence of Love"
What's new: Steiner proposes a non-dualistic understanding of hatred.
Logic:
Everything that exists is created from Love (God is Love).
Therefore, hatred cannot be an "absence" of Love — that's impossible.
Hatred is redirected Love.
Example: When you hate an enemy, you love the opposite of what they represent. Your Love hasn't gone anywhere — it is just focused on a different object.
Practical meaning: If you feel hatred, do not reproach yourself for a "lack of love." Instead, ask: "What is my Love focused on right now?" — and you will see it is focused on something valuable to you. Then you can consciously redirect it.
8. Sensations in the Spiritual World: Why it's "Awesome," But the Desire to Incarnate Arises
What's new: Steiner describes the Spirit's life on the 20th level — and then asks a paradoxical question: why return to the body if it's so good there?
Advantages of the Spiritual World:
No aging, illness, physical pain.
No need to obtain food, clothing, shelter.
No need to rush.
Disadvantages (paradoxically motivating incarnation):
In the Spiritual World, nothing needs to be obtained — but this is also a limitation.
The desire to create in matter — to create something that requires overcoming the resistance of the physical world.
Spirit may want to change itself — and for that, it needs new experiences that only incarnation provides.
Conclusion: Incarnation is not a punishment or exile. It is a tool for self-change, voluntarily chosen by the Spirit.
Final Table: What's New in the Second Session (Not in the First)
| Theme | Content (New) |
|---|---|
| Personal death experience | Detailed description of passing, absence of fear, image of a "walk" |
| Archangel Michael | As a personal guide, explanation of "invisibility" to low vibrations |
| Pity | "Pity for others portrays God as unjust" — respect for another's path |
| Truth | Multifaceted nature ("two times two is five" contains one), two examples (reincarnation, God) |
| Self-awareness practice | Question to the heart "why do I live?" — method of feeling oneself as Spirit |
| Spirit's first choice | Between unity with God and separateness — origin of free will |
| Hatred | Not absence of Love, but its redirection |
| Motivation for incarnation | Not punishment, but desire to change oneself through overcoming matter |
Conclusion: Two Sessions, Two Voices
Comparing the two sessions, we see two hypostases of one personality:
First session (pedagogical): The Teacher, systematizer, methodologist. He gives clear instructions: rituals, stones, colors, formulas. He solves specific problems: how to raise children, how to heal, how to understand age-related crises.
Second session (philosophical-confessional): The Mystic, poet, mentor. He gives no instructions — he shares experience. He tells how he died, how he met the Archangel, how he understood the nature of truth. He shows, rather than explains.
These are two sides of the same coin. Steiner was both during his life — but his lectures were often overloaded with terminology. In these posthumous dialogues, the two voices have separated, and each sounds purer.
The first session speaks to parents and educators.
The second session speaks to every person who has ever feared death, hated, argued about truth, or wondered: "Why am I here?"
In this lies the unique value of the second session. It does not teach — it testifies. And its testimony — that death is not frightening, truth is multifaceted, and hatred is distorted love — can be a comfort to many.
Afterword
This study did not repeat the comparative analysis of "living vs. posthumous Steiner" conducted in the essay of March 9, 2026. Instead, we focused on the new content of the second session, treating it as an independent text — a confession of a Spirit residing at the 20th level of consciousness.
The second session deserves special attention precisely because it does not duplicate the first. It reveals Steiner from a new side — not as a systematizer, but as a mystic who experienced death and is ready to testify that beyond the threshold there is no darkness, but rather — as he himself said — a return home.
The document was prepared with the participation of AI (DeepSeek and Claude.ai models) as a research tool. May 2026.
https://blog.cassiopeia.center/rudolf-shtajner-chelovekovedenie-i-duhovnaya-ehvol
Cassiopeia #864 Rudolf Steiner: Human Studies and Spiritual Evolution. Why is Spirit born into Matter? Part 2.
00:00 Start of video.
00:26 Excerpts from the conference.
"...Today we continue our conversation with the Spirit who, in his last incarnation, was known as Rudolf Steiner (his surname is read variously). He has already been with us; there is a video, but I decided to invite him again because there are still questions for him that were not covered in the first part..."
01:40 Introduction of participants. Who is Rudolf Steiner.
Irina: Hello, dear friends! Good day to everyone! My name is Irina Podzorova. I am a contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, with the Spiritual World, with fine-material civilizations.
Natalia, greetings!
Natalia: Hello everyone! Hello, Irina Sergeevna! Hello, Rudolf!
Rudolf Steiner, let's remember a little, incarnated from the 11th level and passed into the Spiritual World to the 20th level. Today I would like to state a rather serious topic that will concern a person's responsibility before each stage of their life — this is the life between death and the next birth.
We will also touch upon such a question as how Rudolf Steiner spent his last year of life in the studio, when he continued working on the project of building the second Goetheanum, writing articles for the magazine he published every week. He also worked on his autobiography and finished editing a medical textbook he co-wrote with Ita Wegman literally the day before his death.
Natalia: There are many questions. Rudolf, I greet you!
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Greetings!
03:08 Rudolf Steiner's Curators and Mentors.
Natalia: Please tell me, did you have curators and mentors in life, and if so, who?
Irina: Rudolf, did you have curators and mentors?
(Rudolf Steiner): Yes, I had my Angel-Consultants first of all, as well as representatives of the planet Burhad.
(Irina): He's showing me three now; I don't really know who they are. One of them is Mirrach Count; I see him; it's Archangel Gabriel. I don't know the other two.
(Rudolf Steiner): And I also communicated with the Spiritual World, with my Angel-Consultants, and several times (shows) Archangel Michael transmitted information to me.
04:04 The last days of Rudolf Steiner's life.
Natalia: Please tell us, Rudolf, who supported you in the last minutes when you were departing?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): They were waiting for me, because my exit from incarnation was already known in advance; I would even say the word "planned" — but not by me, but by my Higher Self.
Natalia: Tell me, why did you disincarnate? What was the reason?
Irina: He is showing now that his time came, and his heart simply stopped. I don't see any specific illnesses there.
Natalia: Tell me, how did your exit occur? Can you describe your feelings? It's only roughly known.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): I was first in the body and, as I said, communicated with the Angels and with my Angel-Consultants. I often prayed to God and even saw Jesus.
(Irina): Shows that it was like a mountain in his room.
(Rudolf Steiner): And when I prayed in the morning (I prayed every morning), I saw Jesus sending Light from this mountain to the whole Earth. But this was, of course, a symbol. The mountain is a symbol of the Kingdom of Heaven. Why is a mountain its symbol? Because raising your vibrations and going to the Kingdom of Heaven is just as much work, in fact, as climbing a mountain. Do you understand what I mean?
Natalia: Yes.
06:04 Rudolf Steiner on the difficulties of the spiritual path. The Androgyne.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Why is it difficult to love and forgive, but easy to hate and curse? Because to love and forgive, you need to deny your personality, what you call the ego, yourself, and fully let God into your Heart, so that your personality recedes, as it were, into the background. This is difficult to do because we live in a body, and it contradicts our instinctive needs to make ourselves a warm, cozy place and protect our interests.
To be strong and at the same time kind and loving, you need to harmonize two opposites within yourself — the masculine and feminine — so that neither dominates the other, but they are in complete harmony and unity, and are those two halves of the human being which in the language of medieval scholastics is abstractly called the "androgyne." The androgyne is not a bisexual being, as materialistically understood by philosophers of recent times; the androgyne is each of us, who has both feminine and masculine nature within.
Therefore, this path is very difficult: sometimes one half, sometimes the other wants to dominate in a person. Sometimes the masculine half — assertive, aggressive, Martian; sometimes the feminine half — yielding, doubting, and falling into anxieties, that is, showing caution, so to speak. And to combine them, so they do not conflict, requires very great spiritual labor on both halves, that is, on one's parts.
Why am I telling this? Because I did this my whole life, my whole incarnation. Jesus showed me that He is on the mountain; He calls me to Him. And I climb the mountain towards Him, I walk and feel as if my strength is leaving me, and I can no longer take a step, but Jesus reaches out His hand to me, and I understand that if I don't move forward, I will roll back and fall down.
(Irina): What do you say?
Natalia: Well done for finding the strength, wisdom, and understanding to go there, upwards! Thank you, thank you.
Irina: How do you like that story?
Natalia: Wonderful! Thank you! Inspiring other people that, despite some adversities, you need to get up and go, get up and go, even in the last minutes.
10:11 Rudolf Steiner's Last Morning.
Natalia: Tell me, Rudolf, so Jesus reached out his hand to you, and then what happened next?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): I saw this every morning (shows how he prayed), including on that morning which was the last on Earth. This day was not particularly different from others, although inside me there was a feeling that told me, "You are seeing all these objects for the last time in your life." But because I had already harmonized myself and my survival instinct, that animal fear of death no longer visited me.
It only visits those people who have completely merged with their body in terms of consciousness and feel themselves to be the body. Then they feel horror and fear of death, because they have the feeling that death will destroy everything dear to them. But for me, since I felt myself as Spirit, it was an open door to returning home, to the home of our Heavenly Father. And here, in the material world, it is only the vestibule, one might say, the lawn in front of His house, as if you have gone out for a walk (he shows such an image).
And when I felt tightness in my chest and a worsening of my ability to breathe (shows shortness of breath), it was a signal for me, similar to how a signal for children is that their mom or dad is calling them home from a walk. Therefore, I did not resist this; I lay down, and while still in the physical body on the bed (shows a wooden bed), I began to wait for what would happen next. I did not want them to give me help, to save me; I just began to wait for what would happen next.
(Irina): He shows that there are women in the house walking around.
Natalia: Rudolf, who were these women?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Followers of the club I created.
(Irina): And they are saying something. I see several, three of them, standing at the doorway of the room asking something. He is showing me now a memory through his eyes.
I'll describe it. A fairly light, large room, but for some reason there are few colored details; I see everything in black and white: light from the window, the sun, dust particles flying in the air. And women are standing in dark, long robes, like nuns, with such high hairstyles. I see them standing and asking something; their lips are moving, but I hear nothing because my hearing had already turned off.
15:05 Appearance of Archangel Michael.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): And then I felt warmth from behind, heat; I looked back. Since I was lying down, I threw my head back, looked and saw a huge figure that extended beyond the room; its head was above the roof, but I still saw it through the walls. It was Archangel Michael. I felt that he put his hands on my shoulders and filled me with warmth and energy. I began to pray, to address God, and I thought: "My Heavenly Father, I am glad to return home. Help me to pass the path of returning home peacefully and calmly."
And I felt the energy from Archangel Michael entering me, and then he reached out his hands to me and began to lift me in his arms. And it was as if he led me out of my body, and I turned to him and saw an even greater radiance. Because when you are already free from the body, you see astral radiance much better, and it spread from him not just to the whole room, but to the whole house.
And these women, I saw them, were still standing in the doorway with such worried expressions on their faces, and they didn't understand what was happening, why I wasn't answering. And I was so surprised why they didn't see him, because they were next to such a personage; why didn't they feel anything, they paid no attention: someone is standing there.
Archangel Michael felt my question, and he answered it not with words, but with thoughts: "I can be near anyone, but only those who are on similar vibrations can feel me. Then they will simply feel warmth in their hearts, because it will be a similar vibration. But if these are people on other vibrations, even just on the vibrations of an average spiritual level, nothing will change for them. It is like a sound of a very high frequency that ears cannot hear. But if you give a special device and apply it to these ears, you can hear that sound.
Therefore, not everyone can feel me nearby, even if I approach and hug someone, put my hand on someone's head. The clearest of all, people at high, angelic levels can feel me, and the closer to the 24th level, the more they will feel me." Because he himself is at the 24th level.
19:38 Feeling of Compassion for People and Consolation from the Archangel.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): He explained this to me, and I remember, I had such a feeling of pity, compassion for these people, that they do not feel him, that they are missing out on such a wonderful closeness in their lives. When I was outside my body, this compassion, pity, overwhelmed me completely, and I trembled all over (shows shaking). Because feelings there are felt more acutely than in the body, any feelings, whatever they may be. For example, if it's Love there, it also permeates you completely. And if it's hatred there... Well, it's understandable. That is, you are there completely captured by the processes happening in your Heart.
And Archangel Michael also felt this, recognized my pity, compassion. He lifted me with one hand to himself, pressed me to his chest and said: "My spiritual child, do not grieve for these people, because where they are now, they are comfortable. And for them to feel me, they need to go through their own path of spiritual development, and it must be their choice. Therefore, do not grieve over the choice of another Spirit, because pity for others portrays God the Father as unjust in that He devised the law of free choice."
Natalia: Wonderful, wise, but I couldn't live it immediately. Say it again, please. Wise, but I didn't manage to dive into this phrase the first time because it's so profound. Please repeat it once more.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Pity for others portrays God the Father as unjust in that He gave Spirits the freedom to choose to suffer.
Natalia: Ah, I see.
Irina: What do you say?
Natalia: Very profound, wise. Yes, thank you.
Irina: What do you feel from these words?
Natalia: From these words, an expansion in the chest. It's also such a pleasant feeling; it's not even easy to describe, to find words.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): When there is expansion, such warmth and such joy, that is the feeling that this is Truth. You feel truthfulness that way. And when God or His Angel, who is one with Him, speaks to you, you immediately feel Truth. But if you do not recognize it as Truth, on the contrary, it will cause irritation. And if you recognize it, you feel warmth and expansion.
23:33 Rudolf Steiner on the feeling of Truth and the Law of Grace.
Natalia: Could you reveal some more criteria of Truth for our viewers who will be watching? So that they have such a movement that they are going the right way on their path, that they are hearing their Soul. Because it is very difficult for many to go. Perhaps there will be some more observations from life, hints?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): I will tell you. In everyone's Heart there is a Law, the Law of Grace, I would say, that is, the Law of the Universe that God placed in every Heart. Therefore, when you act according to Truth or think in Truth, you feel a need for creation, you feel a need to create, to love, a need to share this with others, but again, respecting, observing the free choice of these others. To convey Truth is a need, but to accept it or not is the right of free choice.
Refusal, resistance, disagreement — if you are with Truth — will not offend you, it will not upset you, and certainly will not cause antipathy towards that person. If you are with Truth, you will say: "Fine, stay in your own beliefs." Because to accept Truth, one must be ready in the sense of growing into it oneself, living it oneself. The habit of relying on authorities in matters of Truth and believing without exact experience that it is exactly so is idolatry. And if a person accepts some information because they feel it is Truth, then they are ready, prepared; they have opened their heart to that part of Truth, as Divine energy expressed in that information.
26:34 Truth is in everything. Examples from mathematics and religion.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): In any information, there is a part of Truth, even if it is false; it is simply distorted, but a part of Truth is still there, and it can be found. Let's take, for example, even simple mathematics. I will show you now with a mathematical example. You know that in mathematics there is only one correct answer to the question of how much two times two is.
Natalia: As a mathematician, I know there are several answers.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Alright. Two plus two, or even two plus one. No, let's take one plus one. And you know that if you count, one plus one equals two — that would be the correct answer that everyone will tell you. And no matter where you count it — on any abacus, device — they will always show you two. If suddenly you count on a device (shows a calculator), and for example, one plus one shows you "3", or even "10" or another number, then if you didn't know the answer, it wouldn't surprise you. Because the answer would be what the calculator gave. And if you knew the correct answer, then for you it would be an incorrect answer. Do you understand what I mean?
So let's imagine that someone answered that one plus one is "5". Any math teacher would say that this is an incorrect, untrue answer.
Natalia: Not any. I say: "Yes, if you plant two seeds, then more will grow..."
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): So how can one recognize the original truth in this incorrect information? Because the number "5" still contains the number "1". Do you understand what I mean?
Natalia: Yes, that's originally what the number "5" came from.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): And exactly the same for any statement about God, about man. I know there are disputes among different religions about what God is like. Here, for example, are two opposing statements: some people say that God is Love and punishes no one, and He has no enemies; He loves everyone. And the second statement, that God is Love, but only for those who love Him, who follow His commandments; He does not love the rest and punishes them. These two views. Which one is true? For they seem to contradict each other. But in fact, they are both true. Why?
Because the first statement is Truth from God's side, since He loves everyone, punishes no one, and has no enemies. And the second statement is truth from the side of a person who has stepped away from God, and having lost the ability to love themselves, does not feel God's Love; feels that He is an enemy to him, and expects punishment from Him, simply shifting responsibility for his suffering onto God. This is his truth, truth from the side of a person who has lowered his vibrations, stepped away from God, and now feels that He does not love him, that He is punishing him, and that He is his enemy. These are two different truths.
31:12 Does reincarnation exist?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Or another. There were widespread disputes in my environment about whether reincarnation exists. These are two opposing statements: that the Soul reincarnates, and that the Soul does not reincarnate. It would seem that these two worldviews, two statements, both of which millions of people believe in — both that the Soul has one life, it does not reincarnate, and that the Soul has many lives, it reincarnates. It would seem a contradiction, because it can either reincarnate or not reincarnate; it cannot be true simultaneously. It turns out it can. How?
The statement that a person has one life, his Soul does not reincarnate, it goes forever to the Kingdom of Heaven or to hell, and there are no other lives — this is a worldview from the perspective of the Soul. The Soul, when it leaves the body... I left the body as a Soul, but I did not remain a Soul; I united with the Spirit. And from the perspective of that Soul which was in the body, there are no reincarnations for me, because I merged with it, meaning I have already become a different being, a different entity. Why different? From the Soul's perspective, "different", because I expanded, gained memory of past lives (shows changes), changed my nature — it changed from soul-ish to spiritual.
Therefore, for that Soul that lived then, and which had the name Rudolf Steiner, no reincarnations exist. Because to reincarnate, I would have first had to unite with the Soul, and then the Spirit itself, not the one who lived in the body, but my Spirit, would have allocated another Soul and reincarnated. That is, you need to understand here that Souls are allocated differently, depending on the goals of incarnation. And so, from the perspective of a person as a being, there are no reincarnations, because the Soul leaves, and if one is born, it is a different Soul.
Do you understand why the truth is that there is no reincarnation?
Natalia: Yes, I understand.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): And why then is it true that there is reincarnation? If you look from the other side, from the perspective of the Spirit, then He, sending different Souls, reincarnates Himself. And therefore, from His perspective, reincarnation still exists. So these two statements are equally true; it's just perspectives from different sides. Therefore, disputes about different truths...
(Irina): Okay, let's do it like this. But how about some saying: "The Earth is flat," and others: "Round"?
(Rudolf Steiner): Both are true, even in the physical sense. When they say "The Earth is round," they mean the whole Earth; and when they say "The Earth is flat," they mean the surface on which a person lives. Because a sphere also has a surface, and it appears flat.
(Irina): How do you like that answer? In short, you can look at everything that way.
Natalia: Yes, interesting.
35:17 Rudolf Steiner on the energies of desire and will in the Spirit.
Natalia: Rudolf, please tell me, what about the period between death and life... You have been in the Spiritual World for a hundred years by earthly standards; you had a birthday this March. Congratulations! You also mentioned a period; in your books there is information about this... Can I show a picture?
Irina: Yes.
(A diagram is shown on screen)
Representation
Will
Image
Germ / Embryo
Birth Death
Natalia: Here are two horizontal stripes, and if we imagine them as a certain path, there is birth and there is death, and between them is a piece of manifestation of life between birth and death. We are now considering the period between death and birth. This is the manifestation of will and the germ. In your books translated into Russian, for example "A General Knowledge of Man as a Basis for Pedagogy," it is said that Will and Germ manifest here. Please tell us more about this. What is meant? What is happening with you now in the Spiritual World? How is it connected both with the life that was and with the one to come?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Yes, I understand. What was meant there is that will is energy. That is, the Spirit has a Spiritual heart in which feelings and desires live. In the language of modern psychology, it is probably better to call them not feelings in the sense of emotions, but character qualities. And these qualities are what the Spirit has accumulated in its lives. And its desires are the same as goals in the mind, only desires are not in the mind, but in the heart. That is, they are its conscious needs based on already developed feelings, to develop or, conversely, to remove some of them, that is, to enter certain states.
And so, the manifested energy of desire from the Spiritual heart passes through the mind and there becomes a goal. There is such a concept as "goal-setting." And coming out to the energy level, that is, to the level of the Spirit's external energy shell (it is like a sphere), this energy turns into will. And before incarnation, who manifests this will, if there are no changes there?
I wrote about this, that although there is no change in level, changes in the Spiritual heart give rise to the desire to incarnate again. That is, for what reason might the Spirit, who has left incarnation, parted with the body, want again to clothe itself in the limited and temporary existence of flesh, which is destroyed every second? This desire can be generated, as I have investigated, only by the need to change its existence in the Spiritual World itself.
(Irina): What do you say?
Natalia: I have nothing to add.
39:42 Feelings of the Spirit in the Spiritual World.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): I will tell you now. I am currently a Spirit, and a Spirit, look, what's the difference? Imagine now that you are such a being that does not age, does not get sick, has no physical pain, but can have spiritual suffering, spiritual pain, but these are some other sensations; it does not age, does not get sick, it doesn't need to hurry anywhere to make it in time, to earn something for a living; it has everything. How do you like such an existence?
Natalia: Rest is definitely provided.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): The Soul, it clothes itself in a body. You have a body now that has its own needs. Firstly, physical needs, the satisfaction of which takes time and energy, otherwise the body will refuse to act and create in the physical world what the Soul came for. Do you understand?
Natalia: Not completely, but I hear you.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): If, for example, the Soul came for creativity, to develop creativity through matter, and the Soul sends the body a signal that it needs to draw, conditionally. But the body — it is in itself a very interesting organism, consisting of many living cells, and they all have, albeit instinctive, but collective intelligence. And for the body to fulfill the tasks of the Soul, its needs must first be satisfied. The body will not want to draw in the cold, in hunger, in severe deprivation; even if it wants to, its needs, its states of pain, fatigue, hunger, cold, etc., will distract the Soul from this creativity. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Natalia: Yes. This is very interesting: yogis, they go away themselves, for example, to the Himalayas, sit down and, changing their state of consciousness...
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): One thing is sitting in one place, another thing is doing something in the physical world. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Natalia: Yes, yes, I understand.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Therefore, these activities require physical energy, require physical conditions: housing, warmth, clothing, food, water, and so on, which you have to physically obtain. In the Spiritual World, there is no need to obtain this, as none of this is needed.
(Irina): How do you like that state? It's awesome, isn't it?
Natalia: Yes.
Irina: Why?
Natalia: Because a lot of unnecessary tinsel falls away.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Exactly!
43:18 Why does the Spirit decide to go into incarnation?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): And for what reason, from this, as you said, "awesome" state, might the Spirit want to separate part of itself? It's also its part, like your hand. It knows everything you feel; your Higher Self, your unincarnated part, feels it because you transmit your sensations to it.
Why then does the Spirit need to take part of itself and place it again in a body, limited on all sides, which needs many physical things, requiring time and effort to acquire? Many people get up in the morning and go to work for money, right? But how would they live without it, even if they are doing a disliked job? They simply couldn't live in an apartment, a house, eat, etc.; they understand that on the street without money and without clothes would be even worse for them than at work. Do you understand?
Natalia: Yes.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Therefore, they go to a disliked job. Why is it disliked? For example, when they got it, it matched their vibrations, but then they had already completed their task there, and their vibrations changed — that's it. And now they need to move on; their Soul calls them further, to some other qualities it needs, which can no longer be acquired at that job. Therefore, it starts to weigh on them; they begin to experience depression, that is, oppression.
And there are many such people. They cannot simply quit one job and move to another because, for example, moving to another requires a certain profession, certain supporting documents, i.e., those physical things and objects that the person does not have. In the Spiritual World, it's simple: create a phantom of any ID — and that's it. But in the physical world, it's not so simple; I lived there.
Therefore, the decision to incarnate is a very serious decision, which I investigated: why would this Spirit, which feels eternal, boundless, immortal, does not get sick, nothing hurts (shows that neither head hurts, nor does it need dental work), all these physical things are gone? Why would it want to enter a body again, and moreover, a body that will be born as a child, again go through the period of childhood, again be subject to control by adults, again be subject to a state where you don't know or understand anything, and everything is decided for you, and when you try to protest, you get punished for it?
(Irina): Well, he speaks amusingly, doesn't he?
47:06 Practice of working with your Higher Self. Example.
Natalia: Indeed, a very topical question. So why?
Irina: I say, tell me, did you face this question?
Natalia: Yes, I faced it, and very actively.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): But you came here. And it can't be said that only your Higher Self decided it. The fact is that when you decided, you were one with it, which means you decided too, this part of you that is your self-awareness. Now ask yourself; I will ask you now: "Natalia, look at yourself, look into your Heart, and give the first answer. Why do you live in this body?"
Natalia: I don't know. That is, at first it was soft; I looked into my Heart; it was soft, and then...
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): In fact, you know. The answer is in your Heart. Once more: "Why do you live in this body?"
Natalia: "To calm the indignation of others." Oh, such an interesting answer! (laughs)
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): "To calm the indignation of others." Do you know where that thought came from? When that thought came to you, what did you feel?
Natalia: I felt like laughing.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Why laughter?
Natalia: Firstly, the formulation itself. That is, "indignation" — what is that? It's some kind of emotional flare.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): And what emotion? What is it called?
Natalia: Laughter — that's joy, it's an emotion of joy.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): So. And what made you happy?
Natalia: What made me happy? The utterance itself.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Yes, correct. And do you know why you were happy about it? Because you spoke this utterance to yourself before your Higher Self separated you, before your Spirit separated the Soul. It embedded in it the knowledge, the information, of why it is incarnating. And this information, as a mental setting — but it wasn't mental then, just in the mind, in the memory of yours, in that part allocated by the Higher Self, it was recorded there. And when I asked you now, addressing your Heart, your Soul, it came out from there into consciousness. And why did it come out with the emotion of joy? Because it gave you, for a few moments, the opportunity to feel yourself in the Spiritual World, where you were joyful.
(Irina): What do you say?
Natalia: Yes, what you are saying now is true. Thank you, thank you again!
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): You see, and now you came here, clothed yourself in this body, chose these parents, with whom you didn't always have harmonious relationships, and chose this country, city, family, and so on, right? And all this only to "calm the indignation of others."
Now the next question. What is important to you about calming them?
Natalia: This is common peace, a common field of peace, something like that.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): That is, you feel the indignation of others as a disturbance of the common field.
Natalia: Yes, that's exactly it. Sometimes it really overwhelms me.
Irina: What do you feel now?
Natalia: Joy. Hurray! I am understood, I am seen! Like in "Avatar": "I see you. I see you."
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Yes, right now, when you answered like that, you felt your spiritual nature. You see me next to you now, don't you?
Natalia: I see the form, yes, but it changes, really. I see it.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Because you focused on the Spirit. I just showed it now, but anyone can do this. I just asked a question, addressing your Spiritual heart, and when the answer came from there, you got this, not even a memory, but a feeling that you are Spirit. This means your mission here, "to calm the indignant," means that you brought Love, only it can heal, calm, and harmonize people's hearts, because their indignation comes from a lack of awareness and Love.
Natalia: So calm and so good! Quiet peace, joy, bliss — so much of everything! In one word, excellent, good!
Irina: Yes, instead of a conference, it turned into a personal conversation. But I think this will also be useful for people to watch, so they can feel the same thing themselves.
Natalia: Yes, yes, thank you very much! Because this is very important. Even when psychologists address, and not only psychologists... When they address, to pay attention precisely at the spiritual level, to partake of the spiritual. Then such kinship, unity, Love will be, an increase of this spiritual. Then there will be less quarrels, worries, mental chewing gum; there will be more friendship. Then there will be more laughter, more children, and it will be very pleasant and good. Thank you very much!
54:30 The Spirit's choice at its birth. Different directions of Love.
Natalia: Please tell me, while you are there, how did you choose a task for yourself? Not only by energies, but there was also this process of reflection, as you said; how does it happen? It's very interesting. You said you will incarnate on Burhad. And this process of choice, tell us a little about how it happens.
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Choice is always conditioned by past experience, in fact. What you choose, what Irina chooses, or what I choose, in the same situation can differ. Here, as I said earlier, the choice depends on the desires that are in the Heart, and desires are based on past experience.
The only exception to this rule is the first choice that a Spirit makes when it is born from God and has no experience yet. Only Love is embedded in it. So why is the choice not always in favor of Love? I also investigated this question. And I came to the following conclusion: Love can be directed in different directions — can be directed at an object, or can be directed at oneself. Love directed at an object is external, giving. The same Love directed at oneself is directed inward; it is receiving. And these are also the two halves of a person, like I spoke about masculine and feminine, it's giving and receiving, and all of this is Love.
Ultimately, a person who hates someone — where is their Love? Their Love is manifested for the object opposite to the one they hate. Do you understand what I mean? That is, hatred is not an absence of Love, but its redirection. For example, when you hate an enemy, you love his opposite.
(Irina): What do you say?
Natalia: Interesting.
57:40 What does the Spirit's choice depend on?
Natalia: So why does this redirection happen? Because of what?
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): Why does the first experience occur when I was born from God and was only His spiritual being (shows a small child in the hands of God, a huge giant)? That is the image I can convey. And this child has a choice of where to turn its Love, which is in its Heart. What does this choice depend on? When the Spirit looks at God, it asks itself: "Do I want to be one with Him, or do I want to be distinct from Him?"
What does the answer depend on? The answer depends on what exactly this Spirit (its self-awareness, its thinking) desires, which desire prevails in it: to be one with God or to be God itself. And this already depends entirely on the Spirit itself, because these thoughts appear simultaneously. Since Love can be redirected both ways, choosing one direction from them is decided by the Spirit itself. Everything depends on itself in the sense that here a position such as freedom also appears. It can choose one or the other.
And what determines what it likes? It depends on what image it imagines for itself. Here it is one with God — does it like this image? Or it is separated from God and rules everything itself. This already depends on how it imagines the future. It does not yet have experience of existing in different states, so it is only capable of imagining how it could be. And one can imagine differently. Despite the absence of a body, its imagination, fantasy haven't gone anywhere; they are already there and draw images. And towards whichever image its Heart leans more, that way it will go and direct its Love.
I hope I explained it clearly?
Natalia: Yes.
Where does the heart lean? I want to show something that materialists and spiritual people often argue about (a video fragment with a neuron is shown on screen). This video shows that God's Light, even on the physical level, penetrates into the nerve cell. How it manifests itself, even at the physical level, it happens this way.
(A diagram is shown on screen). This is exactly what we just examined: cognition, antipathy, memories, concepts — it is also written in this book that through the nerves, it turns out, we are, as it were, mortified, and through the blood we are reborn. These are such interesting thoughts.
(A new diagram on screen) This is also what we touched upon: that we have a sentient body, we have desire, and through the self-conscious Soul manifests the reasoning Soul, the feeling Soul, and there is a motive. And the Spirit-Man, Life-Spirit, and Self-Spirit — this is the decision, intention, desire. This is such a brief summary. Yes.
1:01:43 Thanks. Conclusion.
Natalia: Rudolf, we thank you!
(Photos of Rudolf Steiner on screen) We also wanted to show you photographs; these are memories of the very image you sculpted yourself, and to tell you that this is a booklet published in Germany. Because we remember you, we love you! I myself am from Russia, but people who live on planet Earth remember you, they talk about you.
Today we explored such a concept of yours (quoting): "Between death and life, between life and death, a series of events rushes by, at first glance invisibly influencing us ourselves. And if you delve in and immerse yourself in the depth of the mysteries of what is happening, we will see all the greatness of responsibility for every moment of your manifestation. We are the sculptors of universal happiness!" I think if we asked ourselves whether we are sculptors of universal happiness, we would answer the same as Rudolf Steiner.
Rudolf, have a wonderful incarnation! We thank you!
Irina (as Rudolf Steiner): I thank you.
(Irina): I thank you. Actually, I was also very interested. But since I still have a time factor — we have already been on air for an hour, and I simply see (this often happens) that the Spirit is no longer answering questions but begins to speak himself. Nothing terrible; we will trust the Spirit — it means he considered it necessary to convey the information this way.
Natalia: Yes, thanks again! I also thank Irina Sergeevna!
Irina: I thank Natalia. I thank my Higher Self for its help in this contact. A very bright Spirit.
Thank you, dear friends. I hope you enjoyed this conference, which was probably more monologue than dialogue, where he showed his life and his exit from incarnation using very interesting examples. The Spirit also asked Natalia very interesting questions, and I think, all of us, dear friends.
Thank you for watching this video. Until next time, bye!
Natalia: Bye! Bye! Thank you!
January 3, 2026
Participants:
Irina Podzorova — contactee with extraterrestrial civilizations, with fine-material civilizations, and with the Spiritual World;
Natalia Blagova — therapeutic educator, Reiki master;
Rudolf Steiner — unincarnated Spirit of the Austrian philosopher, scientist, educator, social reformer, clairvoyant, founder of anthroposophy.
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